Oil advice for modifiers and track addicts!

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  • oilman
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Jan 2006
    • 996
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Oil advice for modifiers and track addicts!

    If you are modding your car and adding BHP or using it off road then consider your oil choice carefully as the stock manufacturers recommended oil will not give you the protection that your engine requires.

    A standard oil will not be thermally stable enough to cope with higher temperatures without "shearing" meaning that the oil will not give the same protection after a couple of thousand miles as it it when it was new.

    Let’s start with the fundamentals. An engine is a device for converting fuel into motive power. Car enthusiasts get so deep into the details they lose sight of this!

    To get more power, an engine must be modified such that it converts more fuel per minute into power than it did in standard form. To produce 6.6 million foot-pounds per minute of power (ie 200 BHP) a modern engine will burn about 0.5 litres of fuel per minute.(Equivalent to 18mpg at 120mph). So, to increase this output to 300BHP or 9.9 million foot-pounds per minute it must be modified to burn (in theory) 0.75 litres.

    However, fuel efficiency often goes out of the window when power is the only consideration, so the true fuel burn will be rather more than 0.75 litres/min.

    That’s the fundamental point, here’s the fundamental problem:

    Less than 30% of the fuel (assuming it’s petrol) is converted to all those foot-pounds. The rest is thrown away as waste heat. True, most of it goes down the exhaust, but over 10% has to be eliminated from the engine internals, and the first line of defence is the oil.

    More power means a bigger heat elimination problem. Every component runs hotter; For instance, piston crowns and rings will be running at 280-300C instead of a more normal 240-260C, so it is essential that the oil films on cylinder walls provide an efficient heat path to the block casting, and finally to the coolant.

    Any breakdown or carbonisation of the oil will restrict the heat transfer area, leading to serious overheating.

    A modern synthetic lubricant based on true temperature-resistant synthetics is essential for long-term reliability. At 250C+, a mineral or hydrocracked mineral oil, particularly a 5W/X or 10W/X grade, is surprisingly volatile, and an oil film around this temperature will be severely depleted by evaporation loss.

    Back in the 1970s the solution was to use a thick oil, typically 20W/50; in the late 1980s even 10W/60 grades were used. But in modern very high RPM engines with efficient high-delivery oil pumps thick oils waste power, and impede heat transfer in some situations.

    A light viscosity good synthetic formulated for severe competition use is the logical and intelligent choice for the 21st century.

    You must seriously consider a "true" synthetic for "shear stability" and the right level of protection.

    Petroleum oils tend to have low resistance to “shearing” because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.
    As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.

    True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability.

    Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.

    The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade.

    Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.

    If you would like advice then please feel free to ask.

    Cheers
    Guy
    Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
    oilman's website for BMW engine oil and much more - register for news and offers
    email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
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  • Sonic
    Administrator
    • Jul 2006
    • 5514
    • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

    #2
    Another brilliant article, cheers Guy
    S2Forum.com Administrator

    Comment

    • oilman
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Jan 2006
      • 996
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      Thanks
      Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
      oilman's website for BMW engine oil and much more - register for news and offers
      email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
      phone: 01209 202944

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      • AUDIS2avant
        S2Forum Maniac
        • Jan 2009
        • 670
        • Country: Denmark

        #4
        So my aby with homefries and upgrade i/c should be ok on a good "std oil"?
        Mostly used as a daily driver and 6-8 times a year on the strip?
        Or do you recomend something else?

        Comment

        • GazzaG60
          S2Forum Freak
          • Mar 2007
          • 4133
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          i have been using the halfords track day stuff. seems ok. better in my engine than the standard semi stuff. my mates urS4 found it a bit thin though. low pressure at startup. i got a new pump though so maybe that.

          Comment

          • oilman
            S2Forum Maniac
            • Jan 2006
            • 996
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            Originally posted by AUDIS2avant
            So my aby with homefries and upgrade i/c should be ok on a good "std oil"?
            Mostly used as a daily driver and 6-8 times a year on the strip?
            Or do you recomend something else?
            A decent ester based 5w-40 synthetis s teh best choice for all year round use.

            Cheers

            Guy
            Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
            oilman's website for BMW engine oil and much more - register for news and offers
            email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
            phone: 01209 202944

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            • EspenW
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Apr 2007
              • 1534
              • Country: Norway

              #7
              Good stuff as always, Mr. oilman
              I run M1 5w50 in both my cars.
              Lots of people around here still run (race specific) 10w60 year round even if their oil temp pretty much never exceeds 100 degrees. Ridiculous. Wastes power and increases wear.
              1995 RS2 on Alcohol (6.8sec 100-200km/h)
              1994 80E Avant
              1986 2L Golf 2 on Alcohol

              Comment

              • s2driveruk
                Super Moderator
                • Jul 2003
                • 12696
                • Country: England

                #8
                5w-40? is that dependent on mileage?
                sigpic

                1992 3b S2 Coupe

                Comment

                • AUDIS2avant
                  S2Forum Maniac
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 670
                  • Country: Denmark

                  #9
                  Originally posted by oilman
                  A decent ester based 5w-40 synthetis s teh best choice for all year round use.

                  Cheers

                  Guy
                  Cheers

                  Comment

                  • oilman
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 996
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Decisions on running 10w-60 should be made after having read the facts about its properties viscosity-wise. We always say "unless your oil temps are excessive, stay clear".

                    Read on.....................


                    I have debated this many times on many car forums and I know there are some that do not agree with me however I have never had a reasonable technical explanation why 10w-60 is in fact suitable, it's certainly not mentioned in the handbooks of many modern highly tuned performance cars, with the exception of some Alfa Romeos for "spirited driving" whatever that is meant supposed mean.

                    Explaining this is difficult so there may be questions but I'll try my best to explain it in plain English!

                    Lets look at what oil specs actually mean and particularly the higher number which is in fact the oils SAE number (the "w" number is in fact the cold crank viscosity and measured in a different way) The SAE number is measured by the oils viscosity at 100degC.

                    Your cars require according to the manufacturers specs, sae 30, 40 and in some cases sae 50.

                    To attain the relevent sae number the oil has to be at 100degC (no thinner than)

                    SAE 30 11cst approx
                    SAE 40 14cst approx
                    SAE 50 18cst approx

                    Centistokes (cst) is the measure of a fluid's resistance to flow (viscosity). It is calculated in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.

                    As viscosity varies with temperature, the value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is measured. In the case of oils, viscosity is generally reported in centistokes (cst) and usually measured at 40degC and 100degC.

                    SAE 60 is in fact 24cst viscosity at 100degC!

                    This is 33% thicker than an sae 50, 70% thicker than an sae 40 and over 100% thicker than an sae 30!

                    So, what's the problem with this thickness?

                    Well, this is measured at 100degC and at lower temps (70-90degC) all oils are thicker than at 100degC so the problem is compounded to some extent.

                    The downsides of such a thick oil (when not specified) are as follows:

                    Additional friction, heat and wear.
                    A reduction of BHP at the wheels
                    Lower fuel consumption

                    The thicker the oil is the more friction and drag and the more power the engine needs to move it around the engine which inevitably translates to less at the wheels.

                    So, when do we spec a thicker oil?

                    Well, you will probably have seen us on occassions recommending a 10w-50 but only in these circumstances.

                    1. If the car is heavily modded and heat/oil temperatures are excessive.
                    2. If the car is used on track and heat/oil temperatures are excessive.
                    3. If it's required by the handbook.

                    Our criteria for this is based on oil temps as an sae 40 semi-synthetic can handle around 110degC for limited periods whereas a proper synthetic sae 40 can hande 120-130degC for prolonged periods due to its thermal stability.

                    Once you see more than say 120degC for prolonged periods an sae 50 is adviseable as it is 18cst at 100degC and still 11cst at 130degC! This is in fact the same as an sae 30 at 100degC.

                    More importantly at 90degC an sae 40 is 15cst, an sae 50 is 20cst and an sae 60 is 30cst!

                    In a worst case scenario with thick oils (when not required) is that you will experience air entrainment and cavitation inside the bearings at high RPM. Not clever stuff!

                    I know this is technical stuff but oil is a combination of science and engineering and few people know enough about it to make an informed choice. Just because your mates use it and have had no problems is not a good enough reason to use it, your engine would prefer and benefit from the correct oil.

                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
                    oilman's website for BMW engine oil and much more - register for news and offers
                    email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
                    phone: 01209 202944

                    Comment

                    • Jamo
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 21750
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      This is all very nice technical reading but I got bored trying to pick out bits that are releveant I'm sure i'm not alone so to make it simple for us guys with short attention spans

                      What weight and oil would you recommend for the Audi S cars, standard and modified?

                      I know in the previous thread you went for 5w40 or 10w50 but what make.

                      Comment

                      • oilman
                        S2Forum Maniac
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 996
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Loads of good makes to choose from but the best are the ester based synthetics. You can find them here http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-953-ester-synthetic.aspx Take your pick

                        Cheers

                        Guy
                        Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
                        oilman's website for BMW engine oil and much more - register for news and offers
                        email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
                        phone: 01209 202944

                        Comment

                        • S2central.net
                          Retired OG Mod
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 16590
                          • Country: Northern Ireland

                          #13
                          Guy... Like Jamo - I love the techie aspect to this, but if you could cut to the chase with some specific recommendations for S2/RS2 owners here it would be great... What I mean is a more targetted list of suggested Ester synthetics based on mileage on the engine and whether it is destined primarily for street or trackday use... I don't expect there to be a one size fits all product here - nor do I expect you to pick out one or two brands from your mighty range... Here's just a few scenarios for instance ...

                          1 - Daily driven S2 with ECU upgrade for ~50bhp more than factory

                          2 - RS2 engine spec with ~50bhp more than factory - mainly a trackday / weekend blat machine

                          3 - 400-500bhp screaming monster for mixture of daily duties and the odd trackday

                          Help us out how we would narrow down the oil choices for those scenarios and it should help folk decide on other scenarios...
                          Paul Nugent
                          Webmaster http://S2central.net
                          Administrator http://S2forum.com

                          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                          Comment

                          • Jamo
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 21750
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            Found the original oil thread http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthr...t=18357&page=6

                            Comment

                            • EspenW
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 1534
                              • Country: Norway

                              #15
                              I seem to remember that BMW changed the oil requirements on one of their M cars to 10w60. However, this was supposedly due to a design flaw. Rod bearing problem or something if I remember correctly.
                              1995 RS2 on Alcohol (6.8sec 100-200km/h)
                              1994 80E Avant
                              1986 2L Golf 2 on Alcohol

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