Chargecoolers for S2 / RS2

[Vagsport]

I haven't used an intercooler for the last 5 years. Chargecoolers keep the intake charge temp lower than a conventional intercooler, it is not dependent on outside temperature, and does NOT need to be very big to be efficient. With these kits fitted, I was able to run @ 1.6 bar boost constantly. My old Coupe q had one of these...

[Pisobiker]

Could you please better explain what a chargecooler is and differences compared to standard air-to-air intercoolers? Is it a water to air heat exchanger or what?

Thanks

Marco

[Vagsport]

A chargecooler is an intercooler with a water jacket around it. It has it's own auxillary radiator, header tank and electric water pump. Thrashing you car on a hot day soon looses you power, as the intake temp becomes too high, hense on a cold day, the car is noticeably quicker. With our chargecooler fitted, my car posted consistently quick times on the strip, time after time. We recommend it for any S2 running non standard boost, as the other weak point is the pipe to intercooler (N/S). Over 1 bar and these leak, we have seen cars on the roolers with the front bumper removed. You can actually see the front panel bend under maximum power / boost.

[Pisobiker]

Is it possible to see pictures of those systems?
I've definitly noticed it's almost impossible to have durable performances expecially when running at low to mid speed (so that intercooler doesn't receive enaugh cooling flow) and hot days.... and here in Italy is actually pretty hot
That's why I was thinking of water spraing the intercooler and water injecting the engine (the latter having also some other benefits... )
A separate "closed" water sistem that helps keeping the intercooler fresh would definitly last pretty long, because of great heat absorbtion of water, but.... what about the time water would also have raised it's temperature above values that will make engine sensibly lower it's output. It will take some time.... but it dafinitly will happen, and than heat will be "trapped" in the system much longer than on the standard intercooler.


Marco

[Vagsport]

Haven't got any pics of the system. The water would have to reach almost flash point (impossible) for the chargecooler to become less efficient. Even if you boiled water and poured it straight into the header tank, it would have virtually no effect than if you started with tap water.

[Pisobiker]

Sorry,
my english is probably not good enaugh to fully understand your answer, or I may not have explained in the right manner my last post.

I was tring to take some temp. mesurements last couple of days taking the reading immediatly before throttle body. The goal was to find out at which intake flow temps engine starts sensibly lowering output, probably because of lower intake charge density in conjunction with some retarding in ignition advance (?) that also causes the turbine to spool up noticeably later in rpm range.
Unfortunatly I havn't sourced yet a sensor+gauge fast enaugh to keep up with temps fluctuations in the intake, so I cannot tell results of any kind.

But

Lets say that critical temperature is 80°C. IC will very soon reach and go over that value because flow temp. coming out of turbo cold side is much higer than that. So here comes water. Will take a lot more time to reach this critical temp. But after several continous full load low-to-mid speed runs, there must be a point at which water will finally reach and go over this value as well. When this happens, while with an IC you would probably only need few minutes of light running to cool everything down, water will take a lot more.

So my concern is: will a "closed" water system provide better and more durable power output compared to "waste" systems such as water spraing IC and/or water injecting (thus "internally cooling")?

Thanks

Marco

[Mark Halligan]

There has been a thread on the DIY turbo forum on yahoo going on for a while, this:

http://www.coolflow.com/intracooler/intercooler.htm

this is an interesting variation on the usual type of chargecooler on offer.

Mark.

[Pisobiker]

:confused:

so does the "chargecooler" use the Air Conditioning system (thus evaporator unit and refrigerant fluid)?

[Mark Halligan]

Marco,

no not usually,

they use a seperate smaller radiator with the coolant pumped around by a 12volt pump, have a look here, at the ones on offer from Pace:

http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/automotive-parts.shtml

Cheers, Mark.

[Vagsport]

The water temp will never reach levels critical enough to have any noticeable effect on power output. You can run methanol in the system instead of water. After several full bore runs and flat out driving on a hot day, you can still dip your finger into the fluid in the chargecooler system without getting burnt.

[Pisobiker]

Thanks Mark.
Now I got it.

Ok. It makes sense.
Higher efficiency of "Chargecooler" over a standard IC is mainly due to its operating features that act like a "heat accumulator" (in this case a "cold accumulator" ). In short, when not under boost, an IC will only exchange residual heat soak of its aluminum assembly, thus waisting any extra cooling effect of air flow through it.
The "chargecooler", instead, will use this otherwise waisted extra cooling to keep water temperatures as low as possible (therefore accumulating this "energy absorbtion" capability) for the following run.


Marco

[Greg_S]

the disadvantage, which in this case would be more minor is the extra weight that your carrying around in the car.

But it also means you can mount the equipment where it is most advantagous for weight distribution too.

Greg