Dead S2

[Evilgoat76]

Just a quick feild for sugestions.

Last night, parked up on the drive afetr comming home, cars been behaving perfectly for months no reasont o suspect anything.

This morning, she just spins on the starter. Checked immobiliser etc and everything seems good. I havent really deg into it yet as I had to be out and open up the shop (que 4 mile walk with heavy laptop bag and hyper husky trying to pull my arm off).

Reseated all the connectors taht are usual suspects for this, nothing. Checked earth straps, all the wiring by the amps I had apart months back. Relays reseated fuses checked etc. I dont have a multimeter or scope here till tomorrow night so it really was a quick look. ECU connectors been reseated (was getting desperate at this point)

Pulled fault code 2111 out of it which is the engine speed sensor, I remeber this being something that will show withan engine thats not running. I can hear everything powering up as it should but the engine just doesnt want to fire. Can hear chatter from the injectors so they seem to be doing something.

Will be sunday now when I get time to look at it, any ideas?

Ric

[terrybullwon]

Test for a spark, pull a coil and plug out.

If no spark I woud suspect the hall sender

[Jamo]

If your seriously unlucky the pin in the flywheel has broken off, remove the starter motor and turn engine to see if it's there

[Evilgoat76]

That pin worries me, I REALLY hope thats not the cause. Will pull the coil packs out first thing on sun and look.

[rexr]

I woud suspect hall sender. Same happend to my rs2. Just parked it outside a store. Got back to the car nothing. Just turns and turns on the starter.

[Rusty]

I've had this on crank position sensor, it was the plug, rebuilt the plug at the back of the engine bay and all is well. Give the plugs a good wiggle

[Big Lee M]

If it does it again try tripping some water down the from of the black plastic cam pulley cover where the hall/speed sensor is, if it fires up it's the sensor. Don't ask me how it works but it does. I had the same problem and water is your friend.

[Rusty]

Engine speed sensor is on the bellhousing Lee so unlikely in this case with the fault code pulled. A good tip otherwise though, could be the magnetic permeability of water is better than air or somit like.

[Nuvo]

. A good tip otherwise though, could be the magnetic permeability of water is better than air or somit like.

The relative permeability of air and water is approximately 1.0 so I don't think that is the reason. The cooling effect of the water is a more likely explanation.

[Faheemo]

The relative permeability

WTF

[Evilgoat76]

Well quick tinker after work tonight and nothing obvious, all connectors cleaned up and still no dice. Need to drag the scope out tomorrow as it seems Huskies like to eat diagnostics connectors. My OBD2 -=> 2x2 adaptor is now a 1x2 adaptor :S

The water thing is curious, wont effect the magnetics but could affect something else. Being a Hall sensor (if it really is) there shouldnt be any way water should help. Then again I've noticed the tendancy for manufactuers to use wring names for things.

Gonna sit down with the Motronic manuals and a cuppa now. Ta everyone so far.

[Jamo]

Well quick tinker after work tonight and nothing obvious, all connectors cleaned up and still no dice. Need to drag the scope out tomorrow as it seems Huskies like to eat diagnostics connectors. My OBD2 -=> 2x2 adaptor is now a 1x2 adaptor :S

The water thing is curious, wont effect the magnetics but could affect something else. Being a Hall sensor (if it really is) there shouldnt be any way water should help. Then again I've noticed the tendancy for manufactuers to use wring names for things.

Gonna sit down with the Motronic manuals and a cuppa now. Ta everyone so far.

It's not about magnetics, it's about heat, the water cools down the sensor. Don't ask us why it works it does. I thought the same the 1st time I read it on the forum then I had hall sensor failure and water worked for a while before complete hall sensor failure

[Evilgoat76]

Well thus far...

Checked all connections, cleaned both connectors up on the bulkhead, correct resistance over the sensors. Fuel pump relay is doing what it should as is the pump. Gonn do spark check now then think about looking at the sensor waveforms and see if the timing pins are missing. ECU is sat with no power for a bit to clear fault memory and we'll try the blink codes again.

Oh and I found My water leak So not a dead loss.

Its now raining so given up for now. Suzuki battery on charge ready for the worlds fastest MOT if needed.

Both TDC and Speed sensors out, was some fragments of what looked like wire wool on TDC sensor but nothing I'd consider major. Cleaned them and the bracket up. Flywheel teeth look good but couldnt turn it enough to see the pin. Scope is acting up so gonna fiddle with that then check see I have signals comming from them. Worryingly, theres white cable ties on the wires from both that look old,but not as old as everything else, the factory fitted ones seem to be black, so this looks like its been apart before. No spark. The earth feed to the coil packs is damaged but not broken, will replace that too. Going to make sure there is power there too.

Hall sensor is good, providing nice strong pulses.

Lot of places on the net suggest that 2111 on a non running engine is not unusual and is probobly a red herring.

Running out of ideas here

[Evilgoat76]

Right, code 2111 is a red herring, something odd is going on here. I'm starting to get flashbacks to a similar problm with my old 90Q.

Fuel pump and Lambda sensor arent being energised, noted that these are both on the same contact on the fuel pump relay. Quick check of the wiring diagrams and I can see NONE of the electronic ignition fuses (24,25 and 27 I think) are getting power. Quick check shows this should also come from the fuel pump relay. Relays been stripped, cleaned and tested and no worries that its working. Runnign it topless so I can get at thecontacts, +12v is there but the ecu doesnt seem to be grounding the relay to energise it. I'm now getting worried.

Does the S2 have the silly factory fitimmobiliser/anti theft device. The 90 had a fit of doing this and Autotechnic just disabled the factory immobiliser. I'm also thinking that its worth lookign under the fuse box as I had the wiper stalk connector 'fall off' a few months ago. Might also betime to look at the AutoLock imobiliser on it. If I find any scotchlocks under there.....

[Evilgoat76]

VAG Com Cable arrived and all plugged in and fired up, same information I already had

Sun I'm going after the Immobiliser and buzzing the wiring through then I need to think about an ECU Fixed the scope yesterday so I'll use the waveforms posted in here and have a look. Rnnning out of ideas now.

Problem is the Zuki is mow booked infor the MOT so I'm only allowed 2 hours tinker time before I have to look at that, and that needs Brakes, Exhaust and other bits plus itsbehind the caravan which cant move because the S2's there. Its like a giant 6 ton slide puzzle. Least the Zuki only has points, coil, dizzy and a carb so that wont give me aggro.