Rs2 Aan

[HMS-S6]

Firstly i would like to appologise for having an S6 and not an S2

Secondly i am undoutably asking and age old question, so sorry for that too, but as a mechanic (jag not audi) i can see there are some seriously knowlagable people on here who clearly know what there doing!!!

I have had the car re mapped to 290hp recently and am very happy with it indeed! And for the time being is pleanty fast enough! However, reading peoples projects on here has given me some ideas for the future

It won't happen till winter at the earliest, due to wanting to enjoy rather than work on the car in the sticky tarmac season and as usuall time and money restrictions!

The ultimate plan is to use an RS2 set up (turbo, cams, manifold etc) and a 'safe' map for that. I would rather not go into changing major internals like rods, pistons etc if i can help it.

So my question is this;

What parts would i need?
What is it likely to cost?
What figures could i expect?
How far can i go on a standard aan bottom end?

Also (just out of interest, this one) how different is the actual engine from an RS2 to my aan unit?

Thanks again lads

Rich

[UrS4boy]

Firstly i would like to appologise for having an S6 and not an S2

The ultimate plan is to use an RS2 set up (turbo, cams, manifold etc) and a 'safe' map for that. I would rather not go into changing major internals like rods, pistons etc if i can help it.

So my question is this;

What parts would i need?
What is it likely to cost?
What figures could i expect?
How far can i go on a standard aan bottom end?

Also (just out of interest, this one) how different is the actual engine from an RS2 to my aan unit? Thanks again lads. Rich

There are several people here that have UrS4s and UrS6s. Remember that the AAN engine actually was the precursor to the ABY and the ADU, so really you should be apologizing (in my opinion). I have a 93 S4 that has been brought up to RS2 standards and beyond with RS2 hardware and MRC software.

To answer your last question first, the RS2's ADU and the UrS4/S6's AAN are almost identical. The only significant difference, if any, in terms of function is the ADU rod bearings are different (presumably better) than the AAN rod bearings. The intake cams are the same. Exhaust cams are different but the RS2 exhaust cam isn't really necessary.

As for parts, you do need the following:

1. Exhaust manifold: either real RS2 or Wagner Tuning's RS2 Evo EM. Beware of Chinese/Indian "clone" cast RS2 manifolds on eBay for cheap money. Avoid tube EMs.

2. Turbo: Either real RS2 KKK turbo (now made by Borg Warner/KKK) or a Garrett/KKK hybrid like the 2871RS that 034 offers (note: if you go away from the real RS2 turbo, you need to supply your own water and oil lines to the turbo, the RS2 turbo is a straight bolt on replacement for the UrS4/6 K24). Check this out for examples:

http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_102&products_id=261

3. Injectors: Bosch green top RS2 injectors or equivalent.
Injector ADU (RS2) 034 906 031 F = Bosch 0 280 150 984 from a Porsche parts bin.

4. Software with a 3 Bar MAP sensor or a VMAP. I run generic RS2 MRC software with a re-settable VMAP.

Optional:

5. MAF: The RS2 MAF and UrS4/S6 MAFs are different.
MAF 3B / ABY/ AAN = 034 133 471 K = Bosch 0 280 213 007
MAF ADU (RS2) = 034 133 471 N = Bosch 0 280 213 017

However, they function very similarly as explained here, from my Engine Bay Device Map:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20442.phtml

Note: MRC for one can provide you with s/w tuned around the stock UrS4/S6 471K MAF if you don't want to spring for the more expensive RS2 MAF. (I went RS2 MAF)

You might consider reading through many/some of the Engine Bay Device Map posts if you have questions. The answers are (mostly) there:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22625.phtml

As for cost of all this? It depends on what you can score used. New? = US$1000 for a RS2 EM, turbos = US$1500, injectors = US$150 each. RS2 MAF = US$500. (I am in Canada but can only relate to US pricing).

Good luck.

If you want more UrS6 companions, consider also joining the UrS forum at quattroworld: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/ (but still stay here as well)

Good luck.

[HMS-S6]

Very helpfull, thank you very much!

[Jamo]

If your sticking with stock rods I would say a 2871 turbo might be a better route for you. Rs2 turbo is a torque monster and can easily bend stock rods.

I'd rather have a turbo running near max that having a turbo and haivng to mute it because your on stock rods

[HMS-S6]

like i said it will be at least winter before i go ahead with any of this.
What are the costs of the uprated rods themselves? i know there will be costs along the way (headset etc)

Also, would i need a bigger front mounted intercooler for any of these apgrades?

[andy10v]

Sorry if this is dragging off topic but can an rs2 with only a remap bend its rods then?

[T2Andy]

I would say very unlikely , most tuning companies offer this upgrade and icant recall any failures but nothing is 100% safe , more likely on a 3b than ABY ADU engine , ive got 125 lb/FT of touque more than RS2 on stock rods ,and Nip on here has 450 lb/ft on stock rods ,both no problems ( yet )

[Jamo]

Yes an remap RS2 can bend rods, a stock RS2 map on a 3" exhaust will give just over 350 bhp

You've got more than 700 ft/lb on stock rods?

The thing with Nips setup is the torque band is narrow and peak torque rapidly drops however its too early days to say that setup is safe.

Ask Erikkson, SteveH etc theres a few members who have bent stock rods.

In saying that yes it can be mapped to be safe and I believe S2avant is using the MRC high boost chip on stock rods

[porkkis]

The stock rods are just fine in an rs2 setup without detonation.

[S2central.net]

Agreed with porkkis... I'd be more worried about stock rods at silly torque/boost levels on 3B cos of potential for spark hop.

I've run high boost on RS2 circa 1.9bar and that ends up with a healthy amount of torque at 550Nm (400lbft) which is fine on stock rods. Others have gone beyond 600Nm on stock bottom end without woes but I personally don't favour those peaky style of torque outputs anyway... on the road I find that a wider spread of torque is more useful.

If there is any question over the health of the stock big end bearings then they are worthwhile upgrading to 'sputter' variety as used on ADU and late ABY motors - available from Kolbenschmidt (KS) as per OEM source - I can get the part number if necessary.

[S2central.net]

Oh and finally - and RS2 MAF is NOT required here... sure it has a less restrictive screen, but electrically its the same beast.

[GazzaG60]

id put rods in. cheaper than a new engine. i rate them (stock) at roughly 75-85lbsft per rod. depending on tune and fuel.

im with jamo on this (for a change lol ) its better to be safe. nobody knows when a rods going to go. they are all different, different lifes, some longer than others.

its been done before the bending of rods on an rs2 turbo so with a proper map, not a conservative one just in case you find a banana, it may do it again.

truthfully who has mapped an rs2 on stock rods and gone all out never thinking i need this not to break. i bet the question is always asked. Paul, did you ask your recent customer if they had stock rods or take it as read it would be ok whatever on the rs2?

plus you get a better engine. balanced scats or whatever make the engine feel smoother by far.

[DamianURS4]

Speak to hoffer - he has mostly built my UrS4 with a RS2 hybrid turbo which provides giggles a plenty via the right foot without fear of breaking internals. There are limits, a 3" exhaust has helped my car breathe immensely, I have an AAN ECU which did run the 034 'RS2' chipset but I found that it didnt deliver enough punch as per the quoted 360-380 bhp but that could be for any number of reasons (so kudos to 034) but I have to say that turning an AAN into an RS2 in a car really pays when a car of this size if you have the avant can leave a new merc or BMW on the motorway for dust aong with pretty much else.
I too am watching Nip closely and have yet to turn the key with the 420's in there - my advice - try to learn from other people's mistakes - the only dumb question is the one you are too afraid to ask!

[GazzaG60]

3" for sure helps.

we made about 40-50hp on a subaru that was pushing towards the 350 mark on a 2.5. just a swap to 3"

getting a car to breath properly is as important as bolting on the bigger stuff. its a balance thing.

my advice would be to know whats in that chip and what to expect to see on your wideband when you do. you do have a wideband dont you?

[S2central.net]

Agreed with Gazza & Jamo that lighter / stronger / balanced rods are superior to stock items, but I also go on the basis of ~80lbft per stock rod which is at 400lbft on the I5 donkey for 550Nm. Beyond that I would be getting twitchy alright. Heading towards 420bhp on RS2 turbo is pushing it IMHO (a larger hotside would be better suited for that sort of power level) - certainly needs 440cc injectors as a minimum - and a mahoosive intercooler to try and compensate for the increased air temps when pushing the turbo towards the choke line with high boost levels at high rpm.