Dead S2 :( fuel pump?

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  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #16
    If the ECU sees RPM signal (G28) above a certain speed it enables the fuel pump - I logged this in another thread on subject of 'engine simulator' if you wish to learn more details. This is to stop fuel pump in a heavy shunt that stops the engine while ignition is ON. You can only really test G28 with an oscilloscope. Again I have captured that waveform before here - no mystery that its a sawtooth shape derived from 135 teeth per crank revolution.

    The ECU uses the hall signal (CMP/G40) as the gate to define what phase the engine is on for timing of cylinder #1 - the crank position cannot do this alone for obvious reasons. Best way to test G40 is with 5V LED between pin 2 and 0V - it should blink off every other crank rotation. If the ECU doesn't know where the camshaft is, it cannot determine a firing position.

    So in short form -->

    if G28 is dead you get no fuel pumped
    if G40 is dead you get no sparks
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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    • S2central.net
      Retired OG Mod
      • Jul 2003
      • 16590
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #17
      Oh and of course G40 will be gating factor for injector pulses - so that explains why your plugs are dry even with the fuel pump forced on. I bet my left nut you have a fault CMP/G40 sensor. Go LED shopping before you commit though - or buy an oscilloscope if you are feeling flush
      Paul Nugent
      Webmaster http://S2central.net
      Administrator http://S2forum.com

      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

      Comment

      • S2central.net
        Retired OG Mod
        • Jul 2003
        • 16590
        • Country: Northern Ireland

        #18
        Also - VAGCOM will likely not tell you there is no signal from CMP - it only throws up a fault if you unplug it or short it out.

        You need a LED touching the pins of the G40 plug while cold cranking - if it stays lit all the time then its dead (or your camshaft isnt turning).
        Paul Nugent
        Webmaster http://S2central.net
        Administrator http://S2forum.com

        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

        Comment

        • BrianSmith_S2
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Jun 2005
          • 1342
          • Home: Northern Ireland Current: British Antarctic Territory

          #19
          Well thats 2 items on tomorrows shopping list then... a 12v bulb for checking the blink codes, and a 5v led for putting across pins of the sensor to check its operational and i think i also read somewhere that code 2113 is the one that that would also indicate the cam sensor G40 is knackered.

          Cheers,

          Brian

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #20
            Read my last post again Brian !!!!!!!!!!
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • BrianSmith_S2
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Jun 2005
              • 1342
              • Home: Northern Ireland Current: British Antarctic Territory

              #21
              Originally posted by S2central.net
              Read my last post again Brian !!!!!!!!!!
              Yep, im off to maplins at lunchtime to purchase a 12V (blink codes) and 5V led (test G40) to do blink codes and connect to the G40 sensor whilst cranking over

              Btw i think i did read somewhere on google that if the G40 has failed i can connect a wire across pins 2 and 3 leaving the connector disconected to get the car started?

              ADI just a week away and i dont want to miss it this year so hope i can get it sorted in time.

              Comment

              • BrianSmith_S2
                S2Forum Extremist
                • Jun 2005
                • 1342
                • Home: Northern Ireland Current: British Antarctic Territory

                #22
                Just lost my blink code virginity and it came up with the following

                flash flash....flash.....flash........flash flash flash

                so im guessing that its error code 2113

                i also put a 5v diode across pins 1 (5V) and pin 3 (0V) on the G40 and it lit up with ignition on... when i turned engine over it stayed on constantly with none of the on off flashing as paul described. So it looks like first thing monday i better source a bosch supplier for a new G40 so i can attend ADI.

                Comment

                • s2driveruk
                  Super Moderator
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 12696
                  • Country: England

                  #23
                  good luck
                  sigpic

                  1992 3b S2 Coupe

                  Comment

                  • S2central.net
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 16590
                    • Country: Northern Ireland

                    #24
                    Brian - you need the LED across pins 2 and 3.

                    Pin 1 and 3 will always be +5V... that is supply to the sensor... the signal output is on pin 2... thats the pin that should blink.

                    This gives me an idea about something else by the way.
                    Paul Nugent
                    Webmaster http://S2central.net
                    Administrator http://S2forum.com

                    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                    Comment

                    • Audi-Porsche Avant RS2
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 1041
                      • Country: Italy

                      #25
                      Originally posted by S2central.net
                      I've said this before... let me say it again...

                      The S2 does NOT prime the fuel pump when you turn the key on.

                      The little humming noise you hear when you turn the key on is the afterrun water pump - don't believe me - go put your hand on it while a friend turns the key on.

                      This one smells of camshaft sensor playing up. A 10 pence LED will verify that.

                      To check the fuel pump is working - the only way to be sure is to have someone crank it (while camshaft sensor unplugged) and crack open the fuel line near the injectors.

                      Assume you have checked silly stuff like fuses ?

                      COuld also be a duff relay - number 10 in main panel.
                      Now Paul I understand why I don't hear anything from fuel pump when I turn on ignition key of mine S2. On RS2 fuel pump turn on for some seconds when ignition key turn on?
                      Thanks!
                      Alessio
                      My life and my loves

                      Audi-Porsche Avant RS2
                      Audi S6 C4 ABT Avant
                      Audi S2 Coupe ABY
                      Audi S2 Avant
                      Audi Cabriolet 2.0E

                      Comment

                      • S2central.net
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 16590
                        • Country: Northern Ireland

                        #26
                        AFAIK - RS2 is same as S2 in this regard.
                        Paul Nugent
                        Webmaster http://S2central.net
                        Administrator http://S2forum.com

                        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                        Comment

                        • BrianSmith_S2
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 1342
                          • Home: Northern Ireland Current: British Antarctic Territory

                          #27
                          Originally posted by S2central.net
                          Brian - you need the LED across pins 2 and 3.

                          Pin 1 and 3 will always be +5V... that is supply to the sensor... the signal output is on pin 2... thats the pin that should blink.

                          This gives me an idea about something else by the way.
                          Yep, thanks Paul.

                          I re did the test on the G40 properly on pin 2 (+V) and pin 3 (0V) and when ignition was turned on it lit up and stayed lit up even with the engine turning over. So it looks like a new G40 is in order.

                          Cheers, Brian

                          Comment

                          • S2central.net
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 16590
                            • Country: Northern Ireland

                            #28
                            Good - well you have tested it correctly now so good luck with some care on renewing the sensor.

                            You MUST have a counterhold for the camshaft pulley when loosening or tightening

                            Use a couple tywraps to hold timing belt onto pulley for duration of the swap.
                            Paul Nugent
                            Webmaster http://S2central.net
                            Administrator http://S2forum.com

                            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                            Comment

                            • BrianSmith_S2
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Jun 2005
                              • 1342
                              • Home: Northern Ireland Current: British Antarctic Territory

                              #29
                              Just replaced the G40 carefully in around 2 hours..... but she still wont fire up

                              Just checked the blink codes and the 2113 has been replaced by a 2111

                              engine speed sender G28

                              Comment

                              • BrianSmith_S2
                                S2Forum Extremist
                                • Jun 2005
                                • 1342
                                • Home: Northern Ireland Current: British Antarctic Territory

                                #30
                                Managed to borrow a scanner from a forum member tonight.

                                came up with 3 codes

                                00513

                                00515

                                00518

                                Erased them then and repeated scan procedure and only 00513 returned.

                                Replaced G28 with a spare sensor but still no joy, she cranks over very easily but doesnt fire up, just giving out a 00513 after each attempt

                                Any ideas? im running out of time for ADI tomorrow

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