3b lean on warmup...

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  • amatør
    S2Forum Hobbyist
    • Jun 2009
    • 20
    • Home: Norway Current: United States

    #1

    3b lean on warmup...

    Hi. I have an 3b engine in my s2, Broadbandlambda mounted but not connected to ecu.
    When I start the engine it goes lean under warmup , ( 15,5- 16,5 -1 )
    After 5 min on its normal, 14.7-1. Tried to change the temp sensor on head but no luck !? Anyone ?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by amatør; 28 February 2011, 22:05.
  • prj
    S2Forum Zealot
    • Mar 2010
    • 6308
    • Country: Estonia

    #2
    ECU does not use narrowband for a while... after it's warmed up, it just starts to run closed loop.
    If you see very lean mixtures, it can be due to the following:

    1. Vaccuum leak.
    2. Leak between MAF and Turbo.
    3. Bad software in ECU.

    If you have lean mixture when your engine is cold, even when accelerating, then that can mean a small leak, which reduces in severity as components expand under heat.

    Either way, leak test your intake.
    http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

    Comment

    • S2central.net
      Retired OG Mod
      • Jul 2003
      • 16590
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #3
      I would suspect air leak too... Lambda probe cannot be used until it is warmed up so ECU runs open loop for a while with a cold-start sequence. If anything it should run a little rich while cold, but not looked at this specifically on a 3B before.

      With a small air leak the Motronic adaptation will correct things once it starts to run closed loop. You can get a view of how much the ECU is adapting by looking at ECU Group 0 in VAGCOM - fields 8 & 9 from memory (or 9 & 10)... short term and long term adaptation parameters... If the ECU has to adjust too much for lean or rich running in closed loop then it will throw up a fault code relating to mixture and/or adaptation.
      Paul Nugent
      Webmaster http://S2central.net
      Administrator http://S2forum.com

      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

      Comment

      • prj
        S2Forum Zealot
        • Mar 2010
        • 6308
        • Country: Estonia

        #4
        3B is the same - runs a bit rich on startup.
        http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

        Comment

        • amatør
          S2Forum Hobbyist
          • Jun 2009
          • 20
          • Home: Norway Current: United States

          #5
          that is correct, runs a bit rich on startup usualy... 13.5, 13.8-1.. checked for leaks but have not found any....

          Comment

          • prj
            S2Forum Zealot
            • Mar 2010
            • 6308
            • Country: Estonia

            #6
            How did you check for leaks?
            http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

            Comment

            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #7
              You must have some unmetered air under vacuum - a split or loose hose anywhere after the MAF can cause this - or the narrow control tubes as well.
              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • rs200
                S2Forum Extremist
                • May 2009
                • 1398
                • Home: Croatia

                #8
                every time when I have boost leak it I can see it on boost gauge or on dash , it' must be 0,2 at hot engine or 0,3 when engine is cold, or 0,4 is still good if the cilinder head are little bit old.

                and must go in boost very well , for stock 3b 0,9 bar or 1,9bar on dash...

                those are simptoms of boost leak.

                Comment

                • amatør
                  S2Forum Hobbyist
                  • Jun 2009
                  • 20
                  • Home: Norway Current: United States

                  #9
                  Originally posted by rs200
                  every time when I have boost leak it I can see it on boost gauge or on dash , it' must be 0,2 at hot engine or 0,3 when engine is cold, or 0,4 is still good if the cilinder head are little bit old.

                  and must go in boost very well , for stock 3b 0,9 bar or 1,9bar on dash...

                  those are simptoms of boost leak.

                  Dont understand this ....what.. how?


                  Thanks guys ! I realy appreciate all help I get here! Will test more tomorow ... Will come back with more info..

                  Comment

                  • prj
                    S2Forum Zealot
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 6308
                    • Country: Estonia

                    #10
                    You need to test for leaks by pressurizing your intake.
                    You will never find it by just looking.
                    http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                    Comment

                    • amatør
                      S2Forum Hobbyist
                      • Jun 2009
                      • 20
                      • Home: Norway Current: United States

                      #11
                      Tested all hoses and clamps with startboost spray to see if it would change in idle, found nothing .
                      test drove it and its seems to be ok when warm . 1.3-1.2 bar but drops a bit ( wg feder i think) FULL THROTTLE = 11,8 , 12-1
                      ON 3-4 GEAR.. hm....

                      Comment

                      • amatør
                        S2Forum Hobbyist
                        • Jun 2009
                        • 20
                        • Home: Norway Current: United States

                        #12
                        pressured tested system , no leaks.... Starting engine, afr drops to 13.5-1 . 1-2 minutes later 15.5. 5 min. later 14.7,14.8-1 steady. 3 gear 1.1-1.2 bar , 12-1 afr... hm...

                        Comment

                        • prj
                          S2Forum Zealot
                          • Mar 2010
                          • 6308
                          • Country: Estonia

                          #13
                          Originally posted by amatør
                          Tested all hoses and clamps with startboost spray to see if it would change in idle, found nothing .
                          You need to pressurize the intake with a compressor. You do this by blocking off the breather pipe and then pressurize the system.


                          test drove it and its seems to be ok when warm . 1.3-1.2 bar but drops a bit ( wg feder i think)
                          WG spring has almost nothing to do with boost control if you are using N75 boost control..
                          FULL THROTTLE = 11,8 , 12-1
                          ON 3-4 GEAR.. hm....
                          Too rich. It should only be that low at 6000+ rpm and high IAT.
                          Or do you have some weird software in ECU? Because stock 3B goves 0.9 bar.
                          http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                          Comment

                          • amatør
                            S2Forum Hobbyist
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 20
                            • Home: Norway Current: United States

                            #14
                            not using n75.....
                            Used air compressor with low pressure ! Using rs2 turbo with software from: http://www.jonus-racing.no/........
                            Last edited by amatør; 28 February 2011, 17:59.

                            Comment

                            • amatør
                              S2Forum Hobbyist
                              • Jun 2009
                              • 20
                              • Home: Norway Current: United States

                              #15
                              Hello again, Havent used the car for a while but tried it this weekend.. After a while I stopped the engine , 5 minutes later , no start , I could not hear the fuelpump ! DEAD ! Brought it back home , next day ignition on , pump starts , engine starts !!
                              Shut ofn engine , ignition on again , fuel pump runs constantly !!
                              Fuelpump does not stop when only ignition is on !.. And it runs lean on warm up ! ( I think the afterrun pump started also on cold engine )
                              I tried an other fuelpump relay , no luck....

                              I am realy stuck !! HELP !!!

                              Anyone???

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