Total Seal rings

[Error404]

What are peoples view & experience on Total Seal rings?

I've read reports they are hard to seat and a specific hone pattern must be used?

Interested to hear the pro's views JP, Jyrki, Aelred et al

[Jamo]

See Mark Halligans thread, theres a lot of information on it, and the pro and cons of using the top or 2nd ring seals. I didn't in the end as you pull serious vacuum using them and Mark H had to modify his car to cope

[Error404]

Just spent 2 hours reading about it - Clear as mud!
I guess the cynic in me says if there was anything in it then the manufacturers would be using them from the factory

[Jamo]

True Aelred is a big fan of them, speak to him directly he told me off for not having them

[JP]

Total seal can be good and bad depending on how used.

First of total seal top ring

Pro's

- Good compression seal for less blow by. Stays constant through it's life as there is no real gap.

Con's

- The extra force exerted by the design means the rings wear quicker as well as bores.

- The already thin 1mm steel top ring which is susceptible to flutter under high boost is now made even thinner by splitting it into 2.


Top Seal 2nd ring

Pro's

- The top ring is not made any thinner

- More boost can be theoretically run because of above point.


Con's

- Poor oil control compared to a Napier 2nd ring, so not suited to any engine that's going to see any sort of mileage.


As to why OEM manufacturers don't use them.

1 - they don't want to be replacing rings every 50k miles.

2 - they are expensive to produce. As reference I decided to get custom 1.2mm top rings made to try and counteract flutter. Each one trade was $40. So that was $200 for just the top rings instead of $80 for 5 complete piston sets.

[GT500]

Got them in the UR and RS2. Love them. NO issues what so ever.
Ur has top ring total seal, RS2 has 2nd total seal.
UR has 95K on it since fitment. All flat out.
RS2 has 35K.
Oil stays very clean, must be working ok.

[JP]

^^^^^^ good to know on the mile age front.


When you say flat out, what sort of boost pressures on what size turbo's?

cheers.

[QuattroFever]

Got them in the UR and RS2. Love them. NO issues what so ever.
Ur has top ring total seal, RS2 has 2nd total seal.
UR has 95K on it since fitment. All flat out.
RS2 has 35K.
Oil stays very clean, must be working ok.

You know what spec of hone finish you had done?

[GT500]

I used a three legged honer on my drill. Nothing special.
I don't fanny about with running in. Lots of revs on light throttle and loads of engine braking. The higher the cylinder pressure the better to force the rings against the bores. Rpm with minimum fuel so less lubrication.
Works very well on the total seal rings and I have built a good few race engines that perform better than gingerly normal running in.

Hth

[GT500]

^^^^^^ good to know on the mile age front.


When you say flat out, what sort of boost pressures on what size turbo's?

cheers.

Sorry JP, must have missed this..
UR runs 21 psi with k24.

RS2 is on a 3071 26 psi... no rods in yet...