Tuned Hybrid RS2

[EspenW]

I am glad that you like it Lloyd, and that is a very nice number for a RS2-ish turbo. Remember though guys - a stock RS2 turbo will never make this kind of power.

Excellent job Dimitri!
Shows the potential of a custom map vs a generic chip.
320whp is very solid.
This is why I'm still puzzled by Avantus' 312whp on a claimed stock RS2 turbo measured on the same dyno at 2C higher ambient temp and low octane fuel

[prj]

The whp from that dyno should be taken with a grain of salt.
The corrected power is the one you should be comparing.

360 PS vs 392 PS.

[Avantus]

Excellent job Dimitri!
Shows the potential of a custom map vs a generic chip.
320whp is very solid.
This is why I'm still puzzled by Avantus' 312whp on a claimed stock RS2 turbo measured on the same dyno at 2C higher ambient temp and low octane fuel

We will know the difference pretty soon

My turbo is at Richard for a hybrid upgrade, and will be combined with:

- 044 pump with basket from Loba
- Wagner EVO RS2 manifold
- EV14 injectors
- my current 3" decat exhaust and H-beam rods

In 2 months time (after remap though) there will also come a 3" downpipe to make it fully 3" all the way.


Curious what results this will give after a good remap

[EspenW]

The whp from that dyno should be taken with a grain of salt.
The corrected power is the one you should be comparing.

360 PS vs 392 PS.

True that corrected crank was different, but whp represents tractive force available on the ground, so assuming a similar power curve (and weight) these cars should accelerate similarly and have close to the same top speed. The drivetrain loss on the Hoffer car was a very reasonable 18%, but the 13% on Avantus car is less than VAGs claim on their 80s and 90s FWD cars (around 15%)

Nevertheless, a very efficient machine that should keep up with some very costly modern cars

[prj]

True that corrected crank was different, but whp represents tractive force available on the ground, so assuming a similar power curve (and weight) these cars should accelerate similarly and have close to the same top speed. The drivetrain loss on the Hoffer car was a very reasonable 18%, but the 13% on Avantus car is less than VAGs claim on their 80s and 90s FWD cars (around 15%)

Nevertheless, a very efficient machine that should keep up with some very costly modern cars

I already told you, that this low loss was probably because it read high.
I don't see why you compare those numbers, when corrected is the one you should be comparing.

Also, I am pretty sure Lloyd's car will be way faster, especially going through the gears.
I could have easily made over 400hp car on Lloyd's car. The target was not maximum power, the target was to have *continuous* power for the track. Cars that are set up like streetlight drag racers are not very fast on the autobahn for example.
Lloyd's car is running 5-8 degrees more timing across the range and 0.2 bar less boost.

I guess what I want to say is, there is more to a setup than hp and torque - that's why on a track, a N/A engine of equal power is very good - it does not heat up that much, it does not lose so much power because of IAT's going high etc.

I hope you can learn from this post, which will be the last one on the subject.

[EspenW]

I already told you, that this low loss was probably because it read high.
I don't see why you compare those numbers, when corrected is the one you should be comparing.

I compare those numbers because according to Doug of MRC:
"Before anyone goes on about losses, these dynos measure the torque applied at the wheels on a power run then will measure the torque on coast down"

True torque/power at the wheels with the results of an unloaded coastdown added to estimate crank numbers. Unless the dyno has been recalibrated lately, these cars put very similar peak power to the ground, but you have some very good points about lower IATs and thermal stress which can reduce output considerably during track/autobahn conditions.

[Jamo]

Why is it every dyno plot the samepeople keep going about losses etc, it's only an indication of power output, it's not like it's american horse or something as long as the owner is happy that should be that.

[Lloyd]

Moreover, absolute values aside, the key proof here is in the comparison. Plot 1 vs. Plot 2. Both plots derived from the same dyno, ran by the same operator (thanks Doug!) and almost matching ambient temperatures on both days.

This clearly demonstrates the advantages of Dmitri's custom map over generic chips.

[Jamo]

Well real time mapping an engine is better than generic chips period, don't think i've seen a result where real time mapping regardless of who tuned it is worse than generic chips

[Lloyd]

Nice result on the Turbo and map. What is your chassis spec please?

Cheers,

Steve

Thanks Steve. I will post up the spec and geo settings when I get my hands on the file.

[Lloyd]

The duty cycle % on this car would not tell the truth though, as there is a little bit of fuel pressure taper up top, so I had to enrich by 0.3-0.4 points there, thus the duty is higher than it should be.

Dmitri, how much more power would you estimate the car would give with a bigger FPR?
- Thanks

[prj]

Well real time mapping an engine is better than generic chips period, don't think i've seen a result where real time mapping regardless of who tuned it is worse than generic chips

I have...
Will post a dyno plot for the lulz sometime.

[prj]

Dmitri, how much more power would you estimate the car would give with a bigger FPR?
- Thanks

Zero.
You don't need a bigger FPR, it's just the stock fuel pump can't hold the pressure and bleeds off about 0.2 bar or so up top.
I just added a bit more fuel up top, so everything is fine, it does not affect anything, all of these pumps (OEM RS2) behave exactly the same.

If you were running more boost, you would have to upgrade the fuel pump though, as it would not be safe.

[Lloyd]

OK thanks Dmitri.

[EspenW]

Why is it every dyno plot the samepeople keep going about losses etc, it's only an indication of power output, it's not like it's american horse or something as long as the owner is happy that should be that.

That is true, Jamo. We were just comparing some previous results on the very same dyno. The dyno might have been recalibrated since then, though, so that comparison might not be valid.
However, the pulls before and after the custom remap were within a short timeframe and very valid, demonstrating excellent, proven results