SPARK PLUG change. fr5dtc???

[prj]

Thanks PRJ! I will look for the FR5DP then... I had no luck today and couldn't find the s.plugs I was looking for at the shop...
About A/R ratio... I have the PLX SM-5 wideband so I can look how the ratio is (I need an EGT)... running on gasoline the car is getting the same consumption I wrote before. Running on lpg is never running LEAN but stoich at idle and rich when 1%+ of the gas pedal. The little problem is that it's mapped too way rich and the engine is having some issues, i need to reduce just a little percentage the fuel enrichment during overboost and low load (on vacuum)... I know which are the results of a "too economic" lean A/F ratio with lpg/cng to get more mileage.... a whole engine block and head TO THE TRASH. That is why I'm not letting my A/F ratio lean anywhere. I was thinking to get as soon as possible a chiptuning with 2 maps..the economic low boost (<1.9bar absolute) to run with lpg lowering a bit the ignition advance to lower the chamber temps and another one to run high boost with RON98. I will also upgrade the intercooling system, not for more power specificly, but for more efficiency of the engine.

Motronic runs closed loop, you are probably overfueling all the time, but it reduces ipw, that is why trip computer shows so low figures.
And no afr does not have much to do with egt. lpg needs a lot more advance, especially on a turbo car. The way you are running now the fuel is burning in the manifold. You need to remap the timing or the head will be scrap in 50000km, maybe sooner.

[FabS6]

shoot...well I only do is 3.5K miles a year... I think maybe on february 2012 to have the remap, maybe sooner too! As soon as I get a k24-7400 then do a chip with 2 maps. So, you say I need to advance the ignition? but at idle, soft load (vacuum) or heavy load (boost)??? I will need your help on this... Is this familiar to you?

[prj]

You could say it is, yes
Your system likely won't inject enough for K24-7400.

Also, why would you fit an LPG system if you only do 3.5k a year? Will take forever to pay for itself.

[FabS6]

Well I'm planning to get a better injection system for the motronic, well an upgrade to get the requirements of the 7400 of course. As for the Lpg, till next year I only do that mileage, and gasoline costs here 1.64/liter over 0.74/liter and I payed 15hundred for the whole system. I did this because I don't know where will I need to go for a job, and to not be afraid to use my car to go anywhere at this gasoline prices...(And now knowing that I need to advance my ign, will use it even less till I do something for it) I red in another post that you could do the chip mapping..is that true?

[prj]

Yea, I can map M2.3.2.
Car needs to be on a load bearing dyno to properly dial in advance.
The entire timing and fuel map will have to be recalibrated, and basically having two tunes in ECU with auto switching.

[byd1380]

Diesel Des on here has LPG fitted and running over 400bhp, you could give him a shout. He runs VEMS but had it working with Motronic aswell and mapping was by S2central.

Ivan

[FabS6]

I've found a set of bosch FR5DP for a nice price in UK's bay... I think I will be buy them tomorrow. byd1380: I will ask him too them! thanks a lot! Then ask Paul for the chipset! cheers all!

P.S.: where da heck can I find a UrS6 fuse box and relay diagram???

[prj]

I've found a set of bosch FR5DP for a nice price in UK's bay... I think I will be buy them tomorrow. byd1380: I will ask him too them! thanks a lot! Then ask Paul for the chipset! cheers all!

P.S.: where da heck can I find a UrS6 fuse box and relay diagram???

Lol, you guys think it is so easy, chip for this, chip for that.
Des' car was custom mapped. And you wouldn't be even able to modify your motronic yourself for map switching anyway.
Plus timing depends on CR, engine wear, afr and a host of other factors. Every LPG ecu is different as well.

To get a good result on LPG, you /will/ need to live map the car on a dyno, because there is no other way you can find mbt and best egt timing on all part load conditions. Pretty simple. Not to mention different injectors, turbo etc.

After live mapping over 50 of these cars I tend to know a thing or two about it...

[FabS6]

I know it's not easy, I know the best thing is to have an A/F ratio meter, EGT meter, knock sensor, a chip burning hardware and software, a big fan, and an awd dynamometer to live tuning your engine specificly. Unfortunately I only have a A/F wideband meter and I test the car on the road, going in long gears, flooring with a brake boost and hear/feel/see how the engine is working and adjusting the parameters. I have a homemade knock sensor but I should make some runs with no hood on the street and police here is worst than a big hurting pain in the as*. the only Dyno near here is for 2wd apps...and no 4wd dyno inside italy (if I'm wrong, someone pls give me the good new). I know how is this and worked a few years ago on a workshop mapping some cars on our own dyno in another country, but I don't have that chance or your chance either to make an engine tuning to fit perfectly on my engine. That is because I am asking for opinions based on past experiences from ppl who knows good about this engine tuning/mapping like you, Paul and many others inside this forum. cheers mate!

[prj]

I am 100% sure there are many 4wd dynos in Italy.
Even a lame Google search "site:it 4wd dyno" gives a few results.

WBO2 is useless without all the other data, and you can't map timing anyway, unless you get more into the entire thing.
And you use a real time emu (Ostrich, OLS etc) to map, not a chip burner, that's just for the final product.

Either way - you will need to get your timing dialled in, at the very least based on EGT and knock. Very difficult to do the part load conditions on the street, if not impossible.

Or you can drive it like it is, but I can show you some pics of 1.8T head after LPG...
Basically, I think it is a really bad idea fitting LPG on a turbo car without a proper mapping for it, I guess you got the idea. At the end of the day, it is your car, and you can always do what you want with it, I just thought it might be interesting to share my experience...

Well, at least you got the spark plugs sorted. I used FR5DP at 30 psi without issues.

[FabS6]

I am 100% sure there are many 4wd dynos in Italy.
Even a lame Google search "site:it 4wd dyno" gives a few results.

WBO2 is useless without all the other data, and you can't map timing anyway, unless you get more into the entire thing.
And you use a real time emu (Ostrich, OLS etc) to map, not a chip burner, that's just for the final product.

Either way - you will need to get your timing dialled in, at the very least based on EGT and knock. Very difficult to do the part load conditions on the street, if not impossible.

Or you can drive it like it is, but I can show you some pics of 1.8T head after LPG...
Basically, I think it is a really bad idea fitting LPG on a turbo car without a proper mapping for it, I guess you got the idea. At the end of the day, it is your car, and you can always do what you want with it, I just thought it might be interesting to share my experience...

Well, at least you got the spark plugs sorted. I used FR5DP at 30 psi without issues.

I PM'ed you mate!

[diesel des]

Just for info, my egt is 30 deg cooler on lpg than petrol with exactly the same timing. I havnt had the chance to properly make 2 maps for my car on a dino, but it hasn't died yet. Would be interested in seeing a pic of the damaged lpg head on the 1.8t. Other than valve seat wear lpg is much better on a engine than petrol. I found its impossible to make lpg ping. Well within reasonable limits. Eg if I set my timeing on petrol to hear some ping, I can add 10 degrees timing on lpg with still no ping. 10 deg was way past mbt but was just a test. Also afr gets cooler on lpg with leaning the afr....

[byd1380]

Would be keen on seeing the 1.8T head, I have a 1.8T Seat Toledo on LPG now for over 50k, seems to be fine, no issues at all, the car has a AUQ engine and was mapped to 220bhp on petrol, goes abit better on LPG though.

Ivan

[FabS6]

@diesel_des: I didn't know that... I just know the old style LPG/CNG systems with the air-fuel mixer reductor caused a reduction well over 30% in power/torque of the engine and it was too easy to adjust the fuel flow inlet...so people just reduced the flow to have more mileage (a friend of mine blew a head of his Fiat Uno 1.1c doing this, and another case my friend who does do these LPG installs made a map on his lph MPFI system and cracked the 4 comb.chambers on his Alfa 1.4T.S...very bad mapping, he accepted his fault). What kind of LPG setup are you running? And about valve seat...there are kits especially for the Suzuki and Toyota cars that include a 1L bottle of a special oil to avoid damages on the valve seat/guides "injected" after the TB and sucked by the vacuum created inside the manifold... Anyway, mi biggest fear till now was to get a too way high EGT numbers on lpg and damage my engine, infact, hard accelerations were made with gasoline in my car instead of lpg !

@byd1380: is that the tfsi engine? or the "old" I4-20v? I see you got 228lb/ft too but on lpg?? it's quiet nice mate!

[prj]

Just for info, my egt is 30 deg cooler on lpg than petrol with exactly the same timing. I havnt had the chance to properly make 2 maps for my car on a dino, but it hasn't died yet. Would be interested in seeing a pic of the damaged lpg head on the 1.8t. Other than valve seat wear lpg is much better on a engine than petrol. I found its impossible to make lpg ping. Well within reasonable limits. Eg if I set my timeing on petrol to hear some ping, I can add 10 degrees timing on lpg with still no ping. 10 deg was way past mbt but was just a test. Also afr gets cooler on lpg with leaning the afr....

On cruise you are already running MBT on Petrol. If you add 10 deg on boost, it should ping.

Head: