Acceptable turbo back pressure

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  • Jamo
    Retired OG Mod
    • Mar 2004
    • 21750
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Acceptable turbo back pressure

    What do people find as acceptable back pressure?



    a generally accepted backpressure idea is a 2:1 ratio with manifold boost. i.e. 3.1 Bar exhaust backpressure after the turbo is acceptable on your car
    Is this still applicable
  • s2_wot
    S2Forum Fiend
    • Aug 2006
    • 2178

    #2
    Jamo attached is a screenshot from the Borg Warner Matchbot software which gives their experience or opinion on the subject.



    EDIT:

    Here are a examples of the exhaust manifold pressure which suggest a 3:1 ratio at 7k RPM with a stock exhaust.

    Last edited by s2_wot; 9 November 2011, 19:39.
    Shane

    Comment

    • vcosmin
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Apr 2008
      • 644
      • Country: Romania

      #3
      Probably is still aplicable for the stock cams / engine designs, like some toyota supra engines which tolerate very high backpressure because of cams designs . For drag / race the ideal i think is around 1:1 , even so if i understood right, eklund's engine for example has lower exhaust pressure than intake.

      http://www.eklundracing.se/ (down side of page)

      Comment

      • prj
        S2Forum Zealot
        • Mar 2010
        • 6308
        • Country: Estonia

        #4
        There is a big difference comparing backpressure in the exhaust and backpressure before the turbo!
        The latter is the most crucial.
        http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

        Comment

        • vcosmin
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Apr 2008
          • 644
          • Country: Romania

          #5
          Reading trough forum, i found this

          edit: I don't measure backpressure, as I know no one on this forum actually knows how to measure it correctly, not to mention what it means. I stopped measuring it, when I realised, moving the measuring point by two inches I managed to lower the backpressure by 7 psi.

          is written by a very reputable tuner (Repo), i get the point about placement, or the way is ussualy measuring, but how can you get away with even measuring it, ok you may check egt's , but that is not all ? if you bost and you gain power is ok, if not , not ?

          Comment

          • jogi730
            S2Forum Fiend
            • Jun 2004
            • 2335
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            I'm not sure there is a difinitive answer to this question?
            My tuner has always maintained that some backpressure in the EM helps with early spool up of the turbo. This theory is backed up by Repo. When replacing my knackered EM, he used narrower tubing slightly restricting flow, thus introducing more back pressure. However, restricting that flow has a detrimental affect higher up the power range.
            Therefore, how much is needed will no doubt vary by the application it is intended for. This is where it is hoped the knowledge and experience of a good tuner will get it just right.
            Audi 90 quattro (Typ 85)
            20v turbo conversion

            sigpic

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            • AndyP
              S2Forum Zealot
              • Feb 2004
              • 6049
              • Country: England

              #7
              How would you measure this?
              sigpic
              1991 Audi S2 3B - 2.5 Stroker engine
              1997 A6 2.5TDi quattro avant - C4
              1976 RD250E / 350LC cafe racer

              Comment

              • DJones
                S2Forum Fiend
                • Jun 2005
                • 2020
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Originally posted by AndyP
                How would you measure this?
                Andy, for before the turbo, which is the one that matters. You would need to drill and tap a thread in your exhaust manifold, screw in something like a length of brake pipe which is long enough to get rid of the heat and push some rubber hose on the end and connect it to a boost gauge.

                My understanding is the manifold wants to be circa 14psi higher than the inlet pressure, any higher creates surge any lower and you wont get boost.

                The hot side has always got to be higher than the cold side or the turbo wont be a turbo...

                Its a bit above me so hope this is correct...

                Comment

                • dkw_dude
                  S2Forum Maniac
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 555
                  • Country: Norway

                  #9
                  Originally posted by jogi730
                  I'm not sure there is a difinitive answer to this question?
                  My tuner has always maintained that some backpressure in the EM helps with early spool up of the turbo. This theory is backed up by Repo. When replacing my knackered EM, he used narrower tubing slightly restricting flow, thus introducing more back pressure. However, restricting that flow has a detrimental affect higher up the power range.
                  Therefore, how much is needed will no doubt vary by the application it is intended for. This is where it is hoped the knowledge and experience of a good tuner will get it just right.
                  I would think the narrower tubing increases the exhaust speed, which will hit the vanes harder and the turbine will accelerate faster. And that this has a downside/secondary negative effect in the increased backpressure, most significant at high boost/rpms.
                  Leif-Helge
                  -91 S2 VEMS and Comp Turbo
                  -12 B** 530XD Touring "S2 parts transporter, and daily driver"

                  Comment

                  • prj
                    S2Forum Zealot
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 6308
                    • Country: Estonia

                    #10
                    Originally posted by dkw_dude
                    I would think the narrower tubing increases the exhaust speed, which will hit the vanes harder and the turbine will accelerate faster. And that this has a downside/secondary negative effect in the increased backpressure, most significant at high boost/rpms.
                    Exactly.
                    http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                    Comment

                    • diesel des
                      S2Forum Possessed
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 3896

                      #11
                      It is possible to have a lower turbine drive pressure than compressor outlet pressure. A 110 vw tdi operates in this mode upto 3500 rpm. I no I measured it. Higher turbine pressures than compressor means you turbine wheel is too small or ar too tight. Very important on big diesels as they operate at fill load and need to be efficient.

                      On our engines a higher turbine than compressor pressure will give better response.

                      Comment

                      • diesel des
                        S2Forum Possessed
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 3896

                        #12
                        As unless its a race car engine efficiency doesn't need optimized for 100% power.

                        Comment

                        • terrybullwon
                          S2Forum Zealot
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 8782
                          • Country: England

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jamo
                          What do people find as acceptable back pressure?





                          Is this still applicable

                          So you dont put 2 bar in and get 2 bar out
                          Chef

                          Comment

                          • vcosmin
                            S2Forum Maniac
                            • Apr 2008
                            • 644
                            • Country: Romania

                            #14
                            well, the target is 1/1, is there any rule of thumb or something from which you aproximate the bakpressure decrease as you increase a/r ? also how much is cam timing / overlap affects backpressure ?

                            Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

                            Comment

                            • Bram
                              S2Forum Fiend
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 2582
                              • Country: Netherlands

                              #15
                              acceptable backpressure is 1,5x the boost on a 0.63AR I think

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