Fuel lines and Surge Tank setups

[Jamo]

Due to my increase in turbo spec I'm beginnging to wonder if my fueling will be ok

What have high powered members done in terms of fuel lines and pumps?

My car will still be a daily driver / weekend car so I don't want to lose car functionality which i've seen with some swirl pots etc

Thought something like

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...Tanks-are-HERE!

or

http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-injection-solutions-fuel-pumps-fully-enclosed-fp34-044-fuel-surge-tank-p-21527.html

[Acidburn]

Easiest thing to do is have a look at other people's projects. Tom and doug had/have big power cars without changing the lines afaik and they have not had no issues.

The bonus you have is unlike most you've had your filter changed which as you know gave you a big boost in fuelling as you said you had to change the fuelling map in vems.

Where would you put that tank above in the car, your's is pretty much loaded up most times i've seen it anyways and how would you run the setup as you'd most likely have to start running 2x pumps, 1 lifter in the tank to feed the 044 in the surge tank which starts getting to be a pita and complicated for whats needed, atm stick with what you have, give it a go and see if you need to change it, why spend money if it is not required in the long run.

[Jonnybravo]

I'd imagine Dougs on twin lines, I wouldn't have much faith in the stock sized hose at those power levels.

There is a alloy swirl pot that fits under the Escort Cosworths that a few people use, it has outputs for 2 pumps and is filled from the standard intank pump I believe, not sure where you could fit it under a avant though but I'm sure judging on the links you posted there would be something available.

One pump certainly won't be man enough though, unless its a Aeromotive one or something, I'd imagine your looking at a -8 sized feed though, these are normally split and run into both ends of the rail then use a centre return on most of the high output 4 cylinder engines I've looked into.

I don't feel there is any need in your case to have anything in the car, will just take some working out how to mount it all under the back somewhere !

[Error404]

you should be able to calculate the maximum flow you can get through the 8mm OE lines, once you know flow rate of the pump that will tell you what you need to know. I also think it will need a bigger bore supply, probably 10mm+ for your engines future drinking habits.
A nice solution would be bin the carbon canister circuit and use 2 x 8mm OEM lines to supply the fuel rail and keep the OE 8mm return.
I'm sure you could find somewhere to put 2 pumps under the car, it wouldn't be that hard to package. I can think of a couple of places to put it under the coupe chassis anyway

[driftin jo]

The restriction in the stock fuel system is not the hard lines, if you look down
the flex hose that goes from the hard line to the fuel rail the hole is only 4-5 mm !
if you consider how much power people have made with the stock set-up
removing this restriction would free up much more flow capability
without changing the hard lines.
There is possibly more restrictions along the way such as banjo bolt flow holes and such, the only way to be sure is to test it to see what it flows in 1 Min at a given pressure obviously you want to be at least 20% over what you are going
to need for the power you are going to run.

[Jamo]

You know I've never noticed that pipe size, quite a lot of people have upgraded the fuel lines but never mentioned it.

Might just setup 1st and then see if fuel pressure drops

[driftin jo]

OK, in the interest of the greater good I haver just measured it to see what size it is,
the hole through the flex hose to the fuel rail is 6mm, which is bigger than I had thoughtI must admit, it may have been an optical illusion caused by it being full of fuel when I looked down it that made it seem smaller, but there you go.
I also measured the bore of the hard line and this is smaller then I had thought so there is not as much difference as I had thought .
The bore of the hard line is 6.6 mm but that is reduced by the bubble flare on the end that joins the flex hose down to 6.2 mm.
In conclusion there is not a lot of difference, however it is worth noting that if you up the hard line size there is little point unless you change the flex hose to the fuel rail as this is only 6mm.
6mm gives you a cross sectional area of 28.26 mm.
As area increases at 4x for every 2x diameter increase even going from 6mm to the 6.6mm of the hard line is an increase of 20% .
If you were for instance using 8mm bore braided hose as I am the cross sectional area is 50.24mm.
If you then consider that people can run quite high HP with the standard lines in place I would say you don't need to go bigger than this as long as it gets to the fuel rail with no restrictions (there may be more that I have not measured yet ).
As it stands my feed hose from my pump can now flow just under twice what the standard flex hose to the fuel rail can.

[andyg plym]

jamo off topic you still after bolts/fixinfs etc? pm me

[Thuppu]

Any pics of your twin 044 setups with suge tank? What filters have you used? What adapters and fittings?

[repo]

Since You ask this nice, here we go.

[Thuppu]

Ok, that looks nice. Does 7mm ID hose bee enough for the surge tank feed and return lines from the big tank? Does the pumps have one way valves anymore?

[repo]

Better to get used for hose size numbering instead of millimeters. They just get confusing, as practically all fuel and oil hoses are sold with -an (Racing and aviation) or jic- (industrial) sizing.

Original fuel line equals -6, and I used bite ring fitting to connect my teflon line to oe line.

Basically I just cut the original feed line, and connect my twin pump outlet after the filter, if not replacing the whole line to the rail.

Another end of original feed I connect with bite ring fitting and teflon hose to surge tank. This way original tank pump fills the surge tank.

Return from surge tank I connect to the original return line with bite ring also, and the orginal return line is extended to the top of the surge tank as well.

Easier than it sounds.

e: always use teflon hoses. Nitrile hoses let the smell of fuel to escape, and Your car smells like environment hazard, let alone You will not be able to notice if You have a leak, as it smells like leaking all the time.

[Thuppu]

Yes, I already got made a pair of 1/2" teflon hoses to connect the pressure feed from the 044's to the line under the car and also the return to the surge tank. But I coudn't get a proper banjo fitting for the orginal tank fitting, so I made the surge tank feed of the orginal hose(7mm ID). Cut it and pressed a JIC fitting on the other end. Was thinkin of using the orginal return hose also because there is a hose clamp fitting on the big tank for this... So I supose these two hoses will smell..?

Hope you get a clue of this text.

[urs4guy]

Hey Jamo

This is what I've got on Da Monstah:

Fuelab adjustable fuel pressure regulator with fuel pressure gauge, SX Performance 18203 external fuel pump and Fuelab inline filters 1 before & 1 after da pump with custom -10 SS solid fuel line that enters the engine bay on the cooler driver's side. Should be good to over 1000 hp.



The first filter is barely visible as it comes out the backside of the fuel tank. Then its the fuel pump and the second filter.



This shows the -10 hard line going forward on the left side of the car.



You can just see the black fitting coming off the hard line just behind the chrome breather cap in the lower right. Then its the -10 line running over to the fuel bar.

Hap, wit dakine fueling not from Evahboost, Maguire

[Thuppu]

Here is how it looks now...