S4 broke down and won't start

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  • merlin's S4
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jan 2005
    • 1539
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    S4 broke down and won't start

    On Friday evening something happened while pulling away normally from a standing start. I think I heard something as if something had fallen off which may or may not be significant but the S4 instantly ran horridly. The engine wouldn't rev, was popping and I couldn't get passed about 30 MPH. I could smell the exhaust fumes from I suspect rich running. I nursed it to the roundabout at the top of the hill where it stalled and wouldn't restart. It appeared to turn over normally and I couldn't see anything obviously wrong or missing so I got it towed back home.

    My code reader listed these codes:

    00513 - G28 Engine speed sensor
    00514 - Ignition timing G4 Crank position sensor no signal
    00515 - G40 Hall Sender
    00537 - Lambda sensor
    00561 - Mixture adaptation

    Now I'm guessing that the Lambda and Mixture codes were caused by the rough running and the G28 code is ever present.

    My immediate thought was that the timing belt had slipped but upon investigation today this doesn't appear to be the case.

    Can anyone shed some light before I investigate further? Thanks!!
    '93 S4 Avant now back on the road complete with new shiny go faster bits.
  • UrS4boy
    S2Forum Obsessed
    • Feb 2006
    • 11859
    • Country: Canada

    #2
    Look to see if the G4 timing pin is still there:

    The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums


    Check the condition of the G4 and G28 sensors:

    The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums


    Check the condition of the G40 cam sensor:

    The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums


    The engine will not restart until all three, the G4, the G28 and G40, are in working order.
    RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
    94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

    Comment

    • twoqu
      S2Forum Possessed
      • Sep 2003
      • 3103

      #3
      The crank position fault might indicate that the timing pin on the back of the flywheel is absent! Would be worth physically verifying that.

      Comment

      • K Simmonds
        S2Forum Zealot
        • Dec 2007
        • 7627
        • Country: Wales

        #4
        The noise you heard 'may' have been the timing pin coming away from the fly-wheel, which would explain the 00514 - Ignition timing G4 Crank position sensor no signal code. Obviously a failed crank sensor would give the same code.
        1990 B3 2.0 80 quattro.
        1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro
        1994 MTM RS2.
        1998 B5 TDI quattro Sport.
        2000 B5 TQS.

        Comment

        • merlin's S4
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Jan 2005
          • 1539
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          Thanks guys! I'm leaning towards the Flywheel Pin idea too. Is the best way to inspect through the starter motor hole or can you feel the pin through the timing window at the top of the bell-housing?
          '93 S4 Avant now back on the road complete with new shiny go faster bits.

          Comment

          • mcandmar
            S2Forum Zealot
            • Apr 2004
            • 5118
            • Country: Ireland

            #6
            Either will work, i would just remove the sensor and have a look in as its quicker than removing the starter.
            91CQ20v - Gone to a new home
            93UR-S4 - The Magic Carpet
            94S2Bus - The Emerald Express

            Comment

            • UrS4boy
              S2Forum Obsessed
              • Feb 2006
              • 11859
              • Country: Canada

              #7
              Originally posted by mcandmar
              Either will work, i would just remove the sensor and have a look in as its quicker than removing the starter.
              But you can't weld a new one on through the sensor opening.
              RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
              94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

              Comment

              • mcandmar
                S2Forum Zealot
                • Apr 2004
                • 5118
                • Country: Ireland

                #8
                Originally posted by UrS4boy
                But you can't weld a new one on through the sensor opening.
                I cant weld so
                91CQ20v - Gone to a new home
                93UR-S4 - The Magic Carpet
                94S2Bus - The Emerald Express

                Comment

                • UrS4boy
                  S2Forum Obsessed
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 11859
                  • Country: Canada

                  #9
                  Originally posted by mcandmar
                  I cant weld so
                  Too small for JB Weld (epoxy) too.
                  RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                  94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                  Comment

                  • merlin's S4
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Jan 2005
                    • 1539
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Well done guys!! The timing pin has come off the flywheel.

                    Any advice regarding fixing it? I may have another pin on a spare flywheel but if I don't can I have one made? And what is the best way to stick it back on?
                    '93 S4 Avant now back on the road complete with new shiny go faster bits.

                    Comment

                    • andyg plym
                      S2Forum Freak
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 4646
                      • Country: England

                      #11
                      this is a gearbox off job isnt it?

                      Comment

                      • merlin's S4
                        S2Forum Extremist
                        • Jan 2005
                        • 1539
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Not if I can help it!! I know it's been done through the starter motor window.
                        '93 S4 Avant now back on the road complete with new shiny go faster bits.

                        Comment

                        • UrS4boy
                          S2Forum Obsessed
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 11859
                          • Country: Canada

                          #13
                          Originally posted by merlin's S4
                          Well done guys!! The timing pin has come off the flywheel.
                          Any advice regarding fixing it? I may have another pin on a spare flywheel but if I don't can I have one made? And what is the best way to stick it back on?
                          Ha! Is there a prize? I called it first.

                          I think we (AAN, ABY and ADU owners) need to start thinking about a pre-emptive rewelding of that timing pin - before it comes off. It can be welded through the starter hole (been done locally to me). Needs two people, one to press the pin into position with a wooden dowel and the other to do a tack weld and then final weld.

                          The details about the size and shape and location of the pin are provided in this post:

                          The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums
                          RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                          94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                          Comment

                          • dspl1236
                            S2Forum Addict
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 242
                            • Country: United States

                            #14
                            i MIG'd my pin back on via starter hole held with vise grips after i finished my v8q 016 swap.... sucker broke on the first start and rev back in '06.... 4 owners later its still going
                            '91 Pearl 3.6 V8 CQ - building
                            '13.5 Jetta GLI - toy
                            '15 Subaru Imprezzzza - work daily
                            hausofdub.com

                            Comment

                            • twoqu
                              S2Forum Possessed
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 3103

                              #15
                              It also unfortunately confirms that if the pin goes the engine starts to die immediately!
                              However we know from another members car that if the actual sensor is unplugged the cars still functions. Which is a bit illogical as you would have expected the no signal condition to have the same effect. Evidently, somehow the Motronic is able to tell the difference between a failed sensor and a missing pin!

                              Not sure if you have removed the starter yet. Perhaps the pin is laying around the bottom of the gearbox. If so you could attempt a repair. If you remove a pin from a good flywheel and cannot effect an on car repair then you would have to remove the flywheel anyway! Looks like the consolidation of an existing pin in the right position would be the best practice but more work!

                              Comment

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