EV1 or EV6 injectors?

[John B]

The time has come for the final injector choice for a 400hp setup using an ABY block with stock rods stock ECU, stock FPR, Bosch 044 fuel pump and maximum 1.5 bar boost. The key factors for injector choice appear to be: -

1. Spray pattern
2. Impedance
3. Latency
4. Flow rate

Taking the above into account, for ease of installation, compatibility with stock ECU, no changes of lead and so on, I have come down to a choice of two being the older EV1 Bosch “Apple Green” (Ford MotorSport) injector and its replacement being the EV6 Bosch Long “Green Giant” . For completeness, I include the RS2 injector in the data table below (this is all the data I can find): -

Bosch Part Comment Cc/min@3bar Impedance Latency 12v Latency 14v
0 280 150 984 RS2 “Green Top” 360 14.3 ohms
0 280 150 558 EV1 “Apple Green” 440 14.5 ohms
0 280 155 968 EV6 “Green Giant” 415 12.0 ohms 0.459ms 0.224ms

All are 4-hole spray pattern. From research on this fantastic forum, it appears that both are popular choices and eminently “tunable” for the kind of power that I am looking for. Perhaps the only deciding factors are that the Green Giant is a newer more efficient design, is more resistant to corrosion but is marginally less powerful at 415cc/min (I see that there are adverts that say that they are rated at 440cc/min) and has a different impedance.

Views very welcome....cheers JB

[Jamo]

60mm Ev14 with clip on adapters
They are worth the extra effort

[Thuppu]

I have a nice set of EV14's for sale.

Also a kit of good oldies Bosch 440cc greentops (almost new ones) is up for sale next month.

[prj]

You will not really make 400hp on stock head at 1.5 bar unless you rev it very high and use a oversized turbo or have severe headwork done.

Also, your injector specs are wrong. 155 968 flow way more than 415cc at 3 bar.
Mapped like 8 cars on them now.

For a 400hp target they are what you should go for, as they are just bolt-on. The only thing you will have to do is to cut the top grooves a little bit more around the injector, so the clips fit properly. Easily done by a piece of a metal saw in 5 minutes.

They are the right length, have the right electrical connectors etc.
Spray pattern is good as well, plus they are pretty linear, and I would not say EV14's have really any advantages in this size over them.

[John B]

Jamo,

Thanks for your reply. I guess i knew the the EV14 would come into the equation with Ross, Sonic and yourself running them as are many others. Did you mean the 550cc EV14 with

Spacer - TOP14-CLIP-F http://www.finjector.com/verkkokaupp...nt/view/2185/9
Connector - USCAR-JET http://www.finjector.com/verkkokaupp...t/view/1270/39

or would you recommend the stock 530cc injector http://www.finjector.com/verkkokaupp...t/view/2710/88 as they only need connectors with them since they come with the spacer

Also is the impedance / latency / spray pattern copmatible?

60mm Ev14 with clip on adapters
They are worth the extra effort

[John B]

Green Giants

The turbo is the final choice of component...and driveability as a weekly driver figures highly here.

As regards injector specification, the Green Giant is often quoted at 440 or 450 cc/min but looking at the charts from Bosch it works out about 415.

Another consideration from the Bosch charts I have seen is the optimum operating pressure and they quote the Green Giant as 3.8bar and the Apple Green as 2.7bar.

They quote Stated “Operating Pressure” is the pressure that the fuel injector is designed to operate at to give optimal fuel atomisation and
control. This is more critical to the EV1 pintle type fuel injectors.


The bolt-on aspect is appealing though.

You will not really make 400hp on stock head at 1.5 bar unless you rev it very high and use a oversized turbo or have severe headwork done.

Also, your injector specs are wrong. 155 968 flow way more than 415cc at 3 bar.
Mapped like 8 cars on them now.

For a 400hp target they are what you should go for, as they are just bolt-on. The only thing you will have to do is to cut the top grooves a little bit more around the injector, so the clips fit properly. Easily done by a piece of a metal saw in 5 minutes.

They are the right length, have the right electrical connectors etc.
Spray pattern is good as well, plus they are pretty linear, and I would not say EV14's have really any advantages in this size over them.

[prj]

The turbo is the final choice of component...and driveability as a weekly driver figures highly here.

As regards injector specification, the Green Giant is often quoted at 440 or 450 cc/min but looking at the charts from Bosch it works out about 415.

Another consideration from the Bosch charts I have seen is the optimum operating pressure and they quote the Green Giant as 3.8bar and the Apple Green as 2.7bar.

They quote Stated “Operating Pressure” is the pressure that the fuel injector is designed to operate at to give optimal fuel atomisation and
control. This is more critical to the EV1 pintle type fuel injectors.


The bolt-on aspect is appealing though.

968's flow 440cc at 4 bar, but they have different latency from Apple Greens.
Nothing further to discuss about them.

You are making a huge topic/deal out of nothing. Just fit 968's, because they are the only ones that are bolt on, work well and are still available. Everything else is NLA or requires various adapters to fit. Use the stock FPR. Job done.

With EV14 spray pattern the car will run lean when warming up, unless whoever tunes your car knows how to correct warmup enrichment on Motronic, or you are using a standalone and are setting warmup enrichment properly.

[Audi_CQ]

With EV14 spray pattern the car will run lean when warming up, unless whoever tunes your car knows how to correct warmup enrichment on Motronic, or you are using a standalone and are setting warmup enrichment properly.

Why will it run lean under warmup with EV14's?

[prj]

Why will it run lean under warmup with EV14's?

Because of the way the fuel hits the valves with these injectors when the manifold temperature is low and atomization not optimal.

Btw, as a background, I've mapped over 60 of these cars. So I'd like to think that I have a pretty good grasp about what injectors do and don't on the I5 engine.

[Audi_CQ]

Because of the way the fuel hits the valves with these injectors when the manifold temperature is low and atomization not optimal.

OK. EV14 has twin cone pattern doesn't it? Also som single cone "motorsport" versions if I'm not wrong? Would these be better?

Btw, as a background, I've mapped over 60 of these cars. So I'd like to think that I have a pretty good grasp about what injectors do and don't on the I5 engine.

It was an honest question not an argument Have no reason not to believe what your posting.

[prj]

OK. EV14 has twin cone pattern doesn't it? Also som single cone "motorsport" versions if I'm not wrong? Would these be better?

Can't say if better or not. You know, the stock injectors also need warmup enrichment.
All the EV14's I've mapped just needed more.

There are many different EV14's. So far 750cc's and 510cc/550cc all needed more warmup enrichment. Can't comment on their spray pattern.

[John B]

Green Giants

Just fit 968's, because they are the only ones that are bolt on, work well and are still available. Everything else is NLA or requires various adapters to fit. Use the stock FPR. Job done.

Thanks for the infomation. These seem a good price (plus VAT of course): -

http://atspeedracing.co.uk/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_18&products_id=306

JB