How suitable is this turbo for my S2?

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  • karlblues2
    S2Forum Addict
    • Jul 2004
    • 402
    • Home: England Current: Australia

    #1

    How suitable is this turbo for my S2?

    Hi Guys. This link refers to another thread recommending this turbo over an RS2 turbo. http://www.034efi.com/catalog/produc...products_id=45
    Can someone please explain whether it is a good replacement to the S2's K24 on my ABY or whether I should stick with an RS2 upgrade through VAGPARTS Any help on explaining the benefits and disadvantages of each would help me lighten my wallet in the right direction
    Kind Regards
    Karl
    Oct 93 build MY 94 ABY Kingfisher Blue Audi S2 with MD147 turbo :mischeif:u SOLD
    Audi 90 Quattro 20V 1989 7A
    Audi TTRS 2010 APR stage 2 +
    Triumph 675 Street Triple R
  • S2 Ant
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Jul 2003
    • 3682
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Sounds interesting esp if its a direct fit
    Ant

    2007 Mk5 Golf GTi, 3 door, DSG, REVO Stg 2 and other goodies
    2011 Kawasaki Z1000

    Comment

    • Paulm
      S2Forum Addict
      • Dec 2003
      • 489

      #3
      Yeah will be a direct fit, I was going to buy one of these before I found an RS2 Turbo, This guy is very helpful and will ship to this country at lower value in case you get stung by export duty. only prob is you will need a custom map for this turbo. I wanted a generic 1 from PaulN so waited for the RS2 turbo.

      Paul
      S4 2.7 Twin Turbo, with a few mods

      Comment

      • horvathg
        S2Forum Maniac
        • Dec 2003
        • 556

        #4
        Originally posted by Paulm
        Yeah will be a direct fit, I was going to buy one of these before I found an RS2 Turbo, This guy is very helpful and will ship to this country at lower value in case you get stung by export duty. only prob is you will need a custom map for this turbo. I wanted a generic 1 from PaulN so waited for the RS2 turbo.

        Paul
        I've never heard about this website. Interesting things there. Anyone has experience with these? eg. the oil ducts.....
        Gabor

        96 ABY coupe full except sunroof. With Porsche big red brakes, remapped ECU, xenon lights, RS2 MAF

        Comment

        • nickhey
          S2Forum Fanatic
          • Jul 2003
          • 73
          • Country: United States

          #5
          Looks very similar to my recently installed Garrett GT30 roller bearing, except without the roller bearing.

          Oil / water hoses will need to be modified to suit.

          I am running mine with an MTM map until Saturday, when Mihnea is doing a re-map. Comparison as it stands against the original RS2, would be that response is much improved / lag reduced.

          I'll post a before ( RS2 / MTM map ) and after ( GT30 / Mihnea map ) dyno plot next week for those interested.

          I paid around £1000 +VAT for the GT30, with an RS2 spec unit costing £700 +VAT( from Turbo Dynamics in the UK ).

          I would recommend paying the extra cost over the original if possible, as the GT30 has scope for higher boost levels over the original RS2, without any significant increase in lag.

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #6
            Originally posted by Paulm
            Yeah will be a direct fit, I was going to buy one of these before I found an RS2 Turbo, This guy is very helpful and will ship to this country at lower value in case you get stung by export duty. only prob is you will need a custom map for this turbo. I wanted a generic 1 from PaulN so waited for the RS2 turbo.

            Paul
            This looks like a good concept alright - with the K24 hot side minimising lag, but of course limiting ultimate top end - so a good compressor match is required.

            Let me get a look at the compressor map first for the T04E 54trim.

            As I understand it, the Garrett T3 centre section means you will need to modify coolant and oil lines.


            Paul
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #7
              Well based on a very quick look, and making various assumptions like -

              Pi = 2psi
              Pf = 1psi
              Ambient Temp = 20 celsius
              Ambient Press = 1020mBar

              and VE between 85-90% I think this turbo can be used with some care. Boost must be limited carefully in low revs to prevent surge. Running close to the surge line I don't see serious boost (1.2bar) until 3500rpm. It can then hold 1.6 all the way to the redline. Realistically you would probably tail off boost at the limit because you are going to need a might good intercooler to keep air temps below 40 celsius when flowing 45lbs/min.

              Of course you could run even higher boost between 5000 and 6000 making use of the useful 'bump' in the compressor map. This will create a mighty wave of torque in this range.

              I'd need to do more sums estimating torque and power for such a boost profile, but gut feel says this turbo has the potential to bend stock rods.


              Paul
              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • S2central.net
                Retired OG Mod
                • Jul 2003
                • 16590
                • Country: Northern Ireland

                #8
                Actually it may not be the potential rod-bender I had first guessed. Max torque is ~450Nm. Check out the plot from the estimated numbers. Its based on a boost profile that runs 1.7bar from 4500-6500 approx.

                This is a potential 400bhp+ turbo on the S2 assuming a jolly good intercooler.

                Power estimate is based on a complex calculation I shan't bore us with here, but it turned up an interesting observation when I was number crunching. I'll discuss the numbers game elsewhere...


                Paul
                Attached Files
                Paul Nugent
                Webmaster http://S2central.net
                Administrator http://S2forum.com

                1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                Comment

                • APNess
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 479
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #9
                  That turbo looks impressive. Love that flat torque line. Would an RS2 intercooler and mist spray do the job of keeping it cool, or are you looking at one of the wider deeper i/c that are appearing on some of the cars on the forum?
                  'The Bacofoil Express'...

                  No more.

                  Leon TDI 150 run in now.

                  Very slow.

                  Needs a chip.

                  Comment

                  • Erikb
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 648
                    • Country: Netherlands

                    #10
                    Would this turbo be a direct replacement for the rs2 turbo?. Can you use the rest of the rs2 parts (EM, injectors, intercooler etc.) with it.
                    Getting everything sorted out for my 5++ hp project

                    Comment

                    • S2central.net
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 16590
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #11
                      1st off - please don't take my spreadsheet calculations as anything more than estimates - albeit based on solid mathematic foundations but assumptions like VE and IC efficiency need to be considered thoroughly.

                      This turbo in question bolts straight onto an S2 or RS2 manifold, but the gotcha is the $300 kit of coolant and oil lines as the Garrett centre section is very different from KKK one.


                      Paul
                      Paul Nugent
                      Webmaster http://S2central.net
                      Administrator http://S2forum.com

                      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                      Comment

                      • nickhey
                        S2Forum Fanatic
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 73
                        • Country: United States

                        #12
                        Hoses shouldn't be too much of an issue.
                        I got the local Pirtek outfit to TIG weld some new fitting on to the original oil hard pipe sections, and then swage some new braided lines onto that.
                        Water hoses are a simple hose-clamp onto the cutdown original hard pipe and nipple on the block.
                        Cost of suitable kit from Turbo Dynamics to suit the Garrett centre section is £40, plus around 40 for the hoses.



                        Originally posted by S2central.net
                        1st off - please don't take my spreadsheet calculations as anything more than estimates - albeit based on solid mathematic foundations but assumptions like VE and IC efficiency need to be considered thoroughly.

                        This turbo in question bolts straight onto an S2 or RS2 manifold, but the gotcha is the $300 kit of coolant and oil lines as the Garrett centre section is very different from KKK one.


                        Paul

                        Comment

                        • nickhey
                          S2Forum Fanatic
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 73
                          • Country: United States

                          #13
                          Originally posted by nickhey
                          Hoses shouldn't be too much of an issue.
                          I got the local Pirtek outfit to TIG weld some new fitting on to the original oil hard pipe sections, and then swage some new braided lines onto that.
                          Water hoses are a simple hose-clamp onto the cutdown original hard pipe and nipple on the block.
                          Cost of suitable kit from Turbo Dynamics to suit the Garrett centre section is £40, plus around 40 for the hoses.
                          PS: I don't work for Turbo Dynamics. I bought the turbo following a failure of the RS2 unit supplied by one of their competitors. I was in the position that I had to shell out at least £700 so the I figured the extra £300 was worth while for the extra performance quoted.

                          Comment

                          • Billman
                            S2Forum Freak
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 4129

                            #14
                            @S2Central.net

                            Can you please make some calculations like these above for the Garret GT35R Turbo??

                            Greetings
                            Go Holset or Go RS4

                            Comment

                            • S2central.net
                              Retired OG Mod
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 16590
                              • Country: Northern Ireland

                              #15
                              Perhaps some time this week. The maps and stuff are on another computer...
                              Paul Nugent
                              Webmaster http://S2central.net
                              Administrator http://S2forum.com

                              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                              Comment

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