New Turbo Advice

***Greg_S*** · 22 September 2003, 10:25

your going the whole hog aint ya mate, was looking at the turbo just below that myself.

Would save having to change oil pipes etc.

**Martynf** · 22 September 2003, 10:46

Not enough juice huh Doug? ;-)

Questions time though.... turbo lag. How will this one be on the lag front, and secondly, what's the best way to reduce lag (in general! - I'm sure we all would like less lag!)

Yes... ok... I'm asking coz I've got a hybrid coming soon!! a comment was made to me a few weeks ago that has really bugged me, a LOT!!! - turbo LAG!!! let's face it, bigger turbo's suffer bigger lag (in general) so how do we reduce it?? I'm really beginning to hate turbo lag, bloody dangerous sometimes!

And while I'm ranting, I HATE S2 BRAKES!!!! leathal pieces of crap!! how the hell they got past Audi product testing I do not know... I thought my freaking whels were on fire yesterday :eek2:

What sort of juice you aiming for Doug??
Martyn

**SteveH** · 22 September 2003, 10:56

Lag is reduced by two things -

1. WG spring tension (within sensible limits)
2. WGFV modulation by ECU programming

I think there are some bearings in the Turbonetics family which give quicker spool up times as well, but thats an expensive decision you make once.

@ Doug - You need to ask the turbo supplier for a compressor map for this configuration. The black art of surge lines always gives me a headache (but the dimensions quoted sound reasonable enough) so I suggest you get MarkH, Mihnea or Marco to give it their approval.

What are you looking for - more oomf low down or more up top or both ?

Paul

**Doug_RS2** · 22 September 2003, 11:31

Lag doesn't really bother me - If you notice lag, you're driving too slow. I am used to the turbo kicking in at 3500rpm and Marks beast was building up before that with his monster turbo - Mihnea the magician will sort the lag out

I've only just started looking into the turbos and I didn't realise the this one would need custom air intake/out hoses - time to send a few more emails.

I know Mihnea said he could squeeze 420bhp out an RS2 manifold so I was hoping to get over 400bhp.

I wouldn't mind a "how to" from Mark on his custom oil/water lines. I started looking at them and some of the connectors are Â£20+

This could get scarey! I'm just waiting for Mark to move the goalposts though

The reason I'm wanting to change is that my car has lost it's distinctive deep rasp. I think I have had the hole in my turbo hose since I bought the car and so overspinning it all the time

I might as well go the whole hog now

**S2central.net** · 22 September 2003, 11:33

What the heck happened there ?
I managed to type over SteveH's post - **** - sorry - didn't know that was even possible.

ops:

Paul

**Doug_RS2** · 22 September 2003, 11:35

Originally posted by SteveH

@ Doug - You need to ask the turbo supplier for a compressor map for this configuration. The black art of surge lines always gives me a headache (but the dimensions quoted sound reasonable enough) so I suggest you get MarkH, Mihnea or Marco to give it their approval.

What are you looking for - more oomf low down or more up top or both ?

Any advice M,M or M?

I want it to be as manic as Marks - that fast, you hit the rev limiter becasue you can't move your arm fast enought to change gears

I don't have the guts to go as far as Mark though :wacked:

I'm wanting more top end power.

**Mihnea** · 22 September 2003, 11:43

Doug, I'm afraid that such a turbo will require much beefier rods before anything else... it sounds very attractive, but don't trade your RS2 turbo in, there's lots of people here who'd like to have one...

Then, that beast will also require an SQ or MTM S1 EM in order to work optimally, if not a tubular header...

BTW take a look at this header and turbo

The turbo makes 600 HP on 2 liter rally cross engines, and I will have to map 2 cars using the same setup (the S2R's already presented by PhilS2R from France) to about as much as they can do safely for track use.

That is to say that if I were you and if I were planning for such a setup, I'd go with an even better compressor, tubular header (the one you can see in the pic will be replicated a few times, for a very interesting price, lower than the MTM S1 unit and all I can say is that it is MUCH better), 5 huge injectors (600cc's should be okay), my upcoming hot-film MAF kit, 3.2 Bar MAP sensor and shoot for possibly 500 HP if the turbo can do them or even more....

Meanwhile, please keep me posted regarding the boost levels your RS2 has now (maybe you already did?) after you've solved the boost leak and I'll tell you about what can be done, but if it's decatted, we can push it to about 370-375 HP, possibly a wee bit more, as well as reduce lag and improve spool-up some.

Cheers m8s!

**Doug_RS2** · 22 September 2003, 12:02

Mihnea - that is very nice but it will also cost me loads of cash. I am getting enough grief from her just now and can't justify it on this S2. When I find an Avant I might go that route

I was only wanting to get upto 420bhp max on this car. I would like to know what would be the easiest way to do this. Stop trying to tempt me into the select few of the brotherhood

I have not recorded my boost pressure but it is better, but still drops off. It now seems to peak at 20psi but tails off (not as much as before). I'm also getting 24psi in 3rd/4th not in 1st/2nd. Is this the overboost function. The biggest difference is the noise though - the noise on Paul's S2Central, must be caused by either the hole in the silicon hose flapping or the turbo overspinning.

I still have to put the intercooler mod hose in and I'll check for more leaks.

If I do change the turbo I will get quotes for buying it outright - how much do people pay for RS2 turbos?

**S2central.net** · 22 September 2003, 16:05

@Doug - if ~420bhp is the target then the good old tried and tested K26/27 hybrid is probably gonna be the most cost effective route for you. It will need the 'S1' EM and 7A cam for best effect I reckon. The K26/27 being a bit long in the tooth won't have the same super quick spooling of MarkH's monstah, but with the correct WG spring and good ECU programming I think you will have acceptable lag on that setup.

Have a private chat with TomC - he has that config on a 3B lump (maybe on standard RS2 EM though) with baseline chips from Mihnea with a tweak by me (and another to come for his unexpectedly high fuelling). They need proper optimising for ultimate performance & economy gains but that will happen next time Mihnea is in the UK when we can monitor EGT and such...

Cheers,

Paul

**Mihnea** · 22 September 2003, 16:08

Ummm, well 420 HP can be done on the RS2 EM but definitely NOT with the same turbo as TomC, because TomC's turbo has a #6 hot side (boost by about 3k RPM) and for 420 safe and reliable HP you'll need a #8 turbine and housing that still goes on the RS2 EM. Possibly a bit more can be had, dunno for sure until I'm inside the car monitoring EGTs and doing the mapping.... Dropping compression ratio a bit might help too here! That setup will definitely be laggier than TomC's, Mark's and an RS2 turbo, BUT at high RPMs it will rip the tarmac off the road

**Audi Parts Guru** · 22 September 2003, 16:44

Minhea,when are you coming to the UK next ?

**Mihnea** · 22 September 2003, 16:47

@Guru: I dunno actually, m8, should be soon but no idea as to when.... what about Castle Combe BTW? Paul?

**Audi Parts Guru** · 22 September 2003, 16:56

Originally posted by Mihnea
@Guru: I dunno actually, m8, should be soon but no idea as to when.... what about Castle Combe BTW? Paul?

Well most of us will be there

and it looks like it will be an excellent meeting............October 8th just incase people didn't know

**Doug_RS2** · 22 September 2003, 18:31

Originally posted by Audi Parts Guru
............October 8th just incase people didn't know

You been drinking Paul - CC is 11th /12th - I hope

(Paul - you got that air filter yet?)

Mihnea - If you are coming over to CC will you be getting a RR on the friday - that would really help me out? You can talk me into that monster EM

New Turbo Advice

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