More MFTS musings!

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  • twoqu
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Sep 2003
    • 3103

    #1

    More MFTS musings!

    These still bug me!
    As we know there are two variants, the original 4 pin and the 3 pin.
    The main difference being that the 4 pin used a 12V supply and the 3 pin does not.
    From the pictures I have seen the 4 pin was more complicated internally than the later 3 pin which basically has a NTC resitor and 2 microswitches and an expanding pellet which presumably trips the mircoswitches.
    On the S2 one function of the MFTS is to alert the ecu to an overheat situation and deactivate the boost control reverting to the mechanical boost level of the spring only. This feature does not appear in the S6 AAN. I am not sure about the S4 AAN.
    According to the factory documentation this function is achieved by a signal out of the MFTS to pin 46 (ABY). This is supposedly either above 2V for the boost control to be active and below 2V for it to be inactive.
    So we know the original 4 pin had a 12V supply therefore its possible that a voltage could be sent out another pin, perhaps through some resitance that varied due to temperature. However the 3 pin does not! It also does not explain how disconnecting the MFTS connector can restore boost if the MFTS is faulty because that can only be removing any signal from pin 46! That implies the ecu is expecting to see an open signal rather than a specific voltage for the boost control to be active.
    If we go back to the 3 pin, the two mircoswitches must have the same function. They are either open or closed. I am assuming that if they close they are earthed aginst the body of the sensor much like the NTC resistor is for providing the change in resistance for the temp gauge. I have previously experimented with measuring the changing resistance of the 3 pin by measuring between the temp gauge pin and the body of the MFTS. That does not work on the 4 pin but I am assuming that this MFTS needs the 12V to generate the signal somehow. It also explains why replacing a 3 pin with a 4 pin MFTS does not seem to work on cars originally equipped with a 3 pin MFTS such as A6 C4's.
    So we still have some anomolies. Was the boost control deleted from the S6 because the 3 pin MFTS, which was introduced around the time of the A6/S6 facelift from the 100, cannot perform the same function, i.e. output a voltage? I am pretty sure the S6 does not even have a wire to pin 46 even if the code in the ecu is there.
    Is the factory documentation incorrect about a voltage on the S2 models? We seem to have established that removing any signal restores boost which is contary to the information pushlished. If it is a voltage it would seem to suggest that there is no way the 3 pin is a suitable replacement as it cannot produce voltage of its own. It can only produce either an open or closed (earthed) signal.
    If the 3 pin MFTS can produce voltage on its own then I think I have discovered the solution to increasing energy costs in the UK!
    Discuss!
  • Ross
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Aug 2005
    • 3399
    • Country: England

    #2
    It's still a bit of a mystery to me too... Dave mentioned in the other thread about resistance being key, i.e. a resistor in line with the pin would prevent it tripping when overheating.

    I am not convinced though... My experience is that when unplugged the pin (obviously no voltage) does not cut boost. A great work around if your pin becomes corroded. Replacing the plug and crimping the wire worked for a journey and then i had boost cut again. Turns out the connection is poor so im just going to solder it.

    Perhaps i should measure voltage - is it possible that too much resistance = <2v and thus boost cut. Good conection (and not overheating) = >2v and boost? But if it gets no voltage at all it it doesnt do anything.
    AUDI - saving Dad's from minivans since 1994

    Comment

    • twoqu
      S2Forum Possessed
      • Sep 2003
      • 3103

      #3
      Actually Ross you mentioned it in another thread recently and I have seen reference to this 2V in conjunction with overheat signals to A/C control heads. But as its a mircoswitch in the 3 pin it surely must be either open or closed. So if it was for arguments sake closed for oveheat then diconnecting it would equate to the ecu seing it as open.
      No harm in attempting to measure it. You may need to test it for a closed/open circuit to the chassis rather than a voltage I suspect. Just cannot see how it can ouput a voltage at all.
      Just looked at what appears to be an S4 AAN loom (fuse holder date clock 8/93) and that has a 4 pin MFTS connector fully populated but pin 46 at the ecu is unpopulated. I think the S4 would have used the 4 pin originally but not ultilised the overheat cutout for boost.

      Comment

      • Ross
        S2Forum Possessed
        • Aug 2005
        • 3399
        • Country: England

        #4
        Mine is 4 pin. Has anyone with a 3-pin MFTS fitted ever had it cut boost due to overheat?

        I guess i could pull the 12v pin from the plug and refit the ECU/AC pin (with dodgy connection hence fake overheat function) and see what happens. I suspect i should see boost restored if the 12v is required as a voltage feed. Same as when its unplugged.

        That would lead to the convlusion a 3-pin does not work, unless someone can prove otherwise! How does the water temp guage work on the 3-pin though.... Im sure someone would have noticed that!
        AUDI - saving Dad's from minivans since 1994

        Comment

        • twoqu
          S2Forum Possessed
          • Sep 2003
          • 3103

          #5
          Ross if you have the original 4 pin then leave it hooked up and see what the output is to the ecu. If its a voltage then that ties in with the documentation. However it does not expalin how disconnecting it restores boost if a voltage is required. No connection - no voltage!
          The gauge is just a resistance. On the 3 pin its between the NTC resistor and earth through the body of the MFTS. I think the 12V is necessary to get a resistance out of the 4 pin somehow as I could not duplicate the same characteristic with the 4 pin as I did with the 3 pin. Of course the 12V may be associated with the overheat signals but I have never seen anyone measure it. So if we can get a voltage measurement we will have to accept the factory documentation is true although it does not make sense at all really!

          Of course what you think is a dodgy connection might actually be a failing MFTS.

          Comment

          • twoqu
            S2Forum Possessed
            • Sep 2003
            • 3103

            #6
            There is info that does suggest that those signals for the overheat are grounds. So are we looking at this the wrong way? Does the pin being grounded cause the voltage at the ecu to drop below this 2V level.
            Perhaps we need to measure whether there is voltage at the pin at the connector end of the MFTS. But that still does not explain why the ecu restores boost when disconnected though as more than 2V is necessary for it to be active according to the documentation. Of course that might be wrong, who knows!

            Comment

            • Rusty
              Super Moderator
              • Jun 2004
              • 18953
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              I was very tempted to ditch the MFTS and replace it with s suitable sensor.
              Cheers'en, AndyC
              1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

              Comment

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