what limits hp when remapping?

[hunker7]

Just out of curiosity. I've heard that you can get around 280HP and 450Nm after a remapping AAN, leaving everything else stock. So what limits it to 280HP? I would assume injectors, exhaust system... what else?

Thanks

[quattrostyle]

turbo.

[hunker7]

turbo.

Just turbo?

[robo]

Just out of curiosity. I've heard that you can get around 280HP and 450Nm after a remapping AAN, leaving everything else stock. So what limits it to 280HP? I would assume injectors, exhaust system... what else?

Thanks

U should get very close to 280bhp with all stock items if you use good mapper like PRJ.
if you upgrade your turbo, injectors, exhaust manifold, and fuel pump you probably gona hit 350 bhp.

[hunker7]

U should get very close to 280bhp with all stock items if you use good mapper like PRJ.
if you upgrade your turbo, injectors, exhaust manifold, and fuel pump you probably gona hit 350 bhp.

So something like RS2 setup? Not planning on doing a remap in near future (everyone says that). So basically changing one bit won't make much of a difference then?

[UrS4boy]

Just turbo?

Without going over say 400 crank hp, the limits are

1. MAP Sensor - this what limits Stage 1 from Stage 1+ (2.5 Bar vs 3.0 Bar) and is absolutely necessary when going higher than Stage 1 http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20417.phtml

2. Turbo - you need more flow/pressure to jam more fuel into the combustion chamber to make more hp, e.g. Stage 2 or 3. Some K24-7000 vs K24-7200 info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/211339.phtml

3. Injectors - if you go bigger turbo you need more fuel flow to maintain adequate Air/Fuel ratios with your larger turbo. Some injector info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20441.phtml

4. For long term reliability, when going larger turbo, you should go to a better exhaust manifold, e.g. OE RS2 or RS2 EVO from Wagner. Some exhaust info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/196904.phtml

[hunker7]

Without going over say 400 crank hp, the limits are

1. MAP Sensor - this what limits Stage 1 from Stage 1+ (2.5 Bar vs 3.0 Bar) and is absolutely necessary when going higher than Stage 1 http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20417.phtml

2. Turbo - you need more flow/pressure to jam more fuel into the combustion chamber to make more hp, e.g. Stage 2 or 3. Some K24-7000 vs K24-7200 info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/211339.phtml

3. Injectors - if you go bigger turbo you need more fuel flow to maintain adequate Air/Fuel ratios with your larger turbo. Some injector info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20441.phtml

4. For long term reliability, when going larger turbo, you should go to a better exhaust manifold, e.g. OE RS2 or RS2 EVO from Wagner. Some exhaust info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/196904.phtml

Great answer as usual So the only thing that can be done to increase performance without taking a loan is a remap? After that you need to sell all your belongings to go further?

[UrS4boy]

Great answer as usual So the only thing that can be done to increase performance without taking a loan is a remap? After that you need to sell all your belongings to go further?

Something like that. To be honest, a 280 hp remap with a 300 kPa (3.0 Bar) MAP sensor and a good stock turbo is *THE* best bang for the buck upgrade-wise. Not sure if you have an immobilizer ECU or not but if you don't it is often possible over here to pick-up a chipped ECU with a 3.0 Bar MAP for US$500 or less.

If I remember correctly, a set of chips (not installed, not including the 3.0 BAR MAP) sensor from prj (dmitri) is in the order of 200 Euros. (Don't quote me, check with Dmitri).

Going Stage 1 (stock 250 kPa MAP) or Stage 1+ doesn't require rolling road/in-car live mapping. Of the shelf chip sets are fine.

[hunker7]

Something like that. To be honest, a 280 hp remap with a 300 kPa (3.0 Bar) MAP sensor and a good stock turbo is *THE* best bang for the buck upgrade-wise. Not sure if you have an immobilizer ECU or not but if you don't it is often possible over here to pick-up a chipped ECU with a 3.0 Bar MAP for US$500 or less.

If I remember correctly, a set of chips (not installed, not including the 3.0 BAR MAP) sensor from prj (dmitri) is in the order of 200 Euros. (Don't quote me, check with Dmitri).

Going Stage 1 (stock 250 kPa MAP) or Stage 1+ doesn't require rolling road/in-car live mapping. Of the shelf chip sets are fine.

How can I check whether mine's immobilizer ECU or not?

So it's possible to get plug and play chips?

[UrS4boy]

How can I check whether mine's immobilizer ECU or not?
So it's possible to get plug and play chips?

1. Get the PN off the ECU and check it against prj's list below.

2. Yes, absolutely. But if you ECU isn't already socketed, you will need somebody to remove the OE chips from the circuit boards and install chips. If you go above Stage 1 you will also need to upgrade the MAP sensor from 2.5 to 3 Bar. (Best done by a professional)

AAN ECU info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/21009.phtml

What prj said about ECU PNs:

"AAN Motronic ECU Part Numbers:
551A early UrS4 with pseudo dizzy and 8k boost chip
551AA UrS4 non-immo, Europe and America
551B UrS4 same as 551AA, but auto
551C UrS6 incorporates all software updates from RS2, different codebase, more diagnostics
551D UrS6 same as 551C but auto (see photos at the end of this post)
551E UrS6 has a small tweak to fuel on cold start
551F UrS6 same as 551E but auto.

At 551C, when the immo got incorporated, the RS2 codebase was merged as well. Yes, all are still 230hp DIN, 227 hp SAE), but many routines are rewritten. For example the rev limiter routine is different, the software code area in the boost/knock control unit is 200 bytes longer and so on."

[K Simmonds]

Great answer as usual So the only thing that can be done to increase performance without taking a loan is a remap? After that you need to sell all your belongings to go further?

Yeah you've got the idea, a good set of chips on a stock set up is great fun and excellent value for money.

[hunker7]

1. Get the PN off the ECU and check it against prj's list below.

2. Yes, absolutely. But if you ECU isn't already socketed, you will need somebody to remove the OE chips from the circuit boards and install chips. If you go above Stage 1 you will also need to upgrade the MAP sensor from 2.5 to 3 Bar. (Best done by a professional)

AAN ECU info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/21009.phtml

What prj said about ECU PNs:

"AAN Motronic ECU Part Numbers:
551A early UrS4 with pseudo dizzy and 8k boost chip
551AA UrS4 non-immo, Europe and America
551B UrS4 same as 551AA, but auto
551C UrS6 incorporates all software updates from RS2, different codebase, more diagnostics
551D UrS6 same as 551C but auto (see photos at the end of this post)
551E UrS6 has a small tweak to fuel on cold start
551F UrS6 same as 551E but auto.

At 551C, when the immo got incorporated, the RS2 codebase was merged as well. Yes, all are still 230hp DIN, 227 hp SAE), but many routines are rewritten. For example the rev limiter routine is different, the software code area in the boost/knock control unit is 200 bytes longer and so on."

Will check the ECU once I get round the car. OE chip is soldered to the board right? And for the new one you need to solder a connector in, so you can plug other chips in?

Yeah you've got the idea, a good set of chips on a stock set up is great fun and excellent value for money.

How much does a plug and play chip cost, and how does it compare to custom map, upsides/downfalls?

[UrS4boy]

Will check the ECU once I get round the car. OE chip is soldered to the board right? And for the new one you need to solder a connector in, so you can plug other chips in? How much does a plug and play chip cost, and how does it compare to custom map, upsides/downfalls?

Some early 1992 UrS4 AAN ECUs came with chip sockets from the factory. You might get lucky.

Read back in one of my posts. I gave you an idea of chip costs.

If you are still running stock hardware, custom mapping is overkill/waste of time and your money.

[hunker7]

Some early 1992 UrS4 AAN ECUs came with chip sockets from the factory. You might get lucky.

Read back in one of my posts. I gave you an idea of chip costs.

If you are still running stock hardware, custom mapping is overkill/waste of time and your money.

Sorry didn't notice that, so I can get those "plug and play" chips from prj on here if I ever need them, sweet. So I have 2.5bar MAP atm, and if I do decide to remap, best way to go would be 3BAR MAP (from RS2?) and a chip? And after that it's turbo, injectors, fuel pump, exhaust manifold/system and custom map

EDIT: MAP sensors are not that expensive at all, $80 for non variable and $110 for variable one, which is better to go for?

[quattrostyle]

Dmitri could/can supply the MAP sensor as well. Actually I would just send your ECU to him and let him do the job.