High flow fuel injectors

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  • Pisobiker
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jul 2003
    • 1175
    • Country: Finland

    #1

    High flow fuel injectors

    Hi all.

    I'm in te process of needing higher flow fuel injectors, but more urgently I need advice about them for my friend (the one who owns an RS2) who has already the car by his tuner for fitting a Garrett GT3071R + some other goodies.

    I was looking at aftermarket injectors like RC, which rate them @ 550-650-750 cc/min @3 bar fuel pressure. I didn't want to go too big and was thinking that if the Bosch "greens" are capable of up to 420-430 Hp on our engines (~440 cc/min each @ 4 bar) the 550 cc/min @ 3 bar (therefore giving over 630 cc/min @ 4 bar) could exceed even 600 hp....

    But the supplyer sayed the 550 cc/min are not a big improvement over the "Bosch greens" therefore suggesting the 750 cc/min ones !!!!

    don't know what to think, but for sure I don't want mega-big injectors I then might not be able to tune at idle or low loads.

    Any advice or feedback appreciated.


    Ciao

    Marco
  • Mihnea
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jul 2003
    • 1288
    • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

    #2
    550cc/min ARE an improvement over the green ones, definitely!!!! I would run them at 4 Bar however, better flow pattern.

    Getting the car to start and idle when warm is going to be an issue with either 550/650cc or more injectors. If the tuner doesn't know real hidden functions of the M2.3.2, he'll be fooked, as there are lots of undocumented (for everyone I mean) parameters that need changed. With those parameters carefully adapted, I got a friend's car to start, run and idle just as a stock engine with 1000cc/min injectors, but it hasn't been easy and I don't know of anyone else, bar a tuner friend from germany who could do that.


    Cheers,

    Mihnea
    '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

    www.MRCTuning.com
    info@MRCTuning.com
    Workshop Directions

    Comment

    • Pisobiker
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Jul 2003
      • 1175
      • Country: Finland

      #3
      Originally posted by Mihnea
      550cc/min ARE an improvement over the green ones, definitely!!!!

      ........

      Mihnea
      That's exactly what I thought looking at numbers, so I really don't understand theyr statements unless:

      a) Theyr 550 cc/min @ 3 bar are way over theyr REAL flow;
      b) Bosch "greens" flow MUCH MORE than what we think.....

      Anyway a reason they might suggest much bigger injectors is aftermarket ones maybe don't like going much over the 80% max duty cycle for relatively long perieds, while, on this respect, the Bosch ones might be more reliable....


      What about the Bosch "orange" ones? what is the exact % increase in flow with the "greens"?


      Thanks

      Marco

      Comment

      • Mihnea
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Jul 2003
        • 1288
        • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

        #4
        Marco, any injector won't run very well over 80% duty cycle, BTDT.
        Last edited by Mihnea; 12 March 2005, 22:55.
        '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

        www.MRCTuning.com
        info@MRCTuning.com
        Workshop Directions

        Comment

        • Billman
          S2Forum Freak
          • Nov 2004
          • 4129

          #5
          @mihnea

          who is this friend of yours from germany? Tom oder Peter?

          MFG
          Go Holset or Go RS4

          Comment

          • Mihnea
            S2Forum Extremist
            • Jul 2003
            • 1288
            • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

            #6
            Billman: Peter is a good guy but I don't know much more about him, he knows his stuff but what exactly???

            Tom? damn, I pissed myself laughing. Ask Tom to tune a car on a dyno for you, you'll see. His 90 quattro with supposedly 530 PS or something never made more than 370 when it was dynoed in köln after he sold it.

            My friend, who really knows his ****, is erdal, he is really good and he can do whatever you want.

            Mihnea
            '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

            www.MRCTuning.com
            info@MRCTuning.com
            Workshop Directions

            Comment

            • Pisobiker
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Jul 2003
              • 1175
              • Country: Finland

              #7
              So Mihnea, are you confirming the 550cc/min @ 3 bar ones, run @ 4 bar should be able to flow up to 500/550 hp on our applications?


              Marco

              Comment

              • S2central.net
                Retired OG Mod
                • Jul 2003
                • 16590
                • Country: Northern Ireland

                #8
                Surely 550cc injectors at 3bar are enough for ~550bhp by the usual rule of thumb. Running them at 4bar would give plenty of margin in my opinion !


                Paul
                Paul Nugent
                Webmaster http://S2central.net
                Administrator http://S2forum.com

                1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                Comment

                • Pisobiker
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 1175
                  • Country: Finland

                  #9
                  I was pretty sure about that too Paul, but then the supplyer, with the story the 550 ones are no big improvement over the "greens", just messed all my assumptions up....

                  Think will go for the 550 ones.
                  No need to go any bigger.


                  Thanks


                  Marco

                  Comment

                  • RustyNut
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 1433
                    • Home: Zambia Current: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Is the conclusion here that the green injectors will easily handle a 400 - 450 hp set up?
                    Old Stuff Reborn.

                    Comment

                    • Mihnea
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 1288
                      • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      No.

                      Originally posted by New Convertor
                      Is the conclusion here that the green injectors will easily handle a 400 - 450 hp set up?
                      '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

                      www.MRCTuning.com
                      info@MRCTuning.com
                      Workshop Directions

                      Comment

                      • s2dude
                        S2Forum Extremist
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 1631
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mihnea
                        No.
                        Informative..........!

                        Comment

                        • twoqu
                          S2Forum Possessed
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 3103

                          #13
                          Originally posted by New Convertor
                          Is the conclusion here that the green injectors will easily handle a 400 - 450 hp set up?

                          I think what he is trying to say is what is the power limit of the RS2 injectors at say 4bar.

                          Comment

                          • RustyNut
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 1433
                            • Home: Zambia Current: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mihnea
                            No.
                            you would recommend? You will be getting a call when the car is ready.
                            Old Stuff Reborn.

                            Comment

                            • corrado
                              S2Forum Fanatic
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 71
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #15
                              If you are running stock ecu than it might be wise to get someone who knows the ecu well like mineha is saying, howerver I would rather run a bigger injector at 3 bar than a smaller at 4 bar.

                              550cc injectors at 43.7 psi would be good for 450hp

                              For 550hp I would go 680-780cc, this is at 3 bar and 85% duty cycle a safe place.

                              Rule of thumb to get a good iddle is to not exced 1.5 times displacment of the cylinder.

                              Myself run 1000cc on standalone with no issues, duty cycle on iddle is 1%

                              Comment

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