Piston ring "grooves" after honed cylinders.

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  • k.alle
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Feb 2008
    • 801
    • Country: Sweden

    #1

    Piston ring "grooves" after honed cylinders.

    Hi.

    Recieved my newly built bottom end today from the workshop that did the work.
    As we loaded the block in the car i noticed that there were som marks in some of the cylinders.
    Much like markings where the piston rings is TDC but "only" half moons.

    Some of them is impossible to feel with the fingers and 1 or 2 is maybe 2 hundreds of an millimeter in "depth".

    What i seek is knowledge, has anyone run with new rings and similar marks?

    I know the theory about going first OD if having piston ring grooves.
    But these are so minute so perhaps it doesnt matter in practice?

    Im gonna snap a picture or to tomorrow and show you but id like to pick your brains until then.

    Thanks
    Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
    http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877
  • pasbogdan
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Sep 2009
    • 1160
    • Country: Romania

    #2
    Seems bores got just a slight honing to correct honing marks or out of round.
    The wear of bores at tdc is usually more present to one side.That should be the reason you can see the"half moon".If the bores measured are in the specs for round,inside diameter and honing markings profile should be fine.

    Comment

    • k.alle
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Feb 2008
      • 801
      • Country: Sweden

      #3
      Yeah well they had to hone because of the new piston rings.
      So i shouldnt be overly worried?

      They should be within spec since they assembled the bottom end.
      It's been line honed at main bearings, balanced crank, skimmed mating surface to the head, weight matched internals etc.
      So it would be an odd thing to leave out for them if needed.
      Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
      http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

      Comment

      • k.alle
        S2Forum Maniac
        • Feb 2008
        • 801
        • Country: Sweden

        #4
        Picture of the bores as promised.uploadfromtaptalk1425749129134.jpg
        Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
        http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

        Comment

        • k.alle
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Feb 2008
          • 801
          • Country: Sweden

          #5
          [ATTACH]52505[/ATTACH]
          Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
          http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

          Comment

          • SteveH
            Super Moderator
            • Jul 2003
            • 4460
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            That will be fine. Not perfect, but it shouldn't cause any issues. Mine were like that when I rebuilt my engine and it's been running for years since without any compression problems.
            91 Modded 3B
            14 A6 Avant Black Edition

            Comment

            • Thuppu
              S2Forum Freak
              • Sep 2010
              • 4115
              • Country: Finland

              #7
              Originally posted by SteveH
              That will be fine. Not perfect, but it shouldn't cause any issues.
              +1


              Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
              Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
              BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
              BMW 740iA e38 - Project

              Comment

              • k.alle
                S2Forum Maniac
                • Feb 2008
                • 801
                • Country: Sweden

                #8
                Thanks guys for your input. Its reassuring that there has been some practical experience with it.
                Im gonna be able to sleep soundly now and move on
                Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
                http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

                Comment

                • pasbogdan
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 1160
                  • Country: Romania

                  #9
                  Based on my experience that marks(especially on one cylinder) indicates 0.01-0.02 mm of wear.Considering new honing removing another 0.01-0.02 mm(on light honing) that will get to 0.04mm total wear measured diameter.That will mean neglectable circle length increasing so neglectable ring gap increase.
                  If your pistons were in good shape i can say that engine will work ok on stock/small upgrade power levels.What i will do,and it is good to do even on a new engine,wait until the engine warms up and pistons heat expand and abuse it after that point.
                  If you trust your services supplier get all mounted back in.If you do not,measure the bores and find out if the honing was a light one or a heavy one,resulting to big piston/bore clearance.
                  What seems strange,is the fact that so much attention was put on balancing and main line honing and the most important thing was used as it was,the bores.I mean,a stock or small upgrade power level setup will work ok with that bores,but will need no balancing.If you get balancing means you have lots of revs,lots of torque and the ring/piston blow by is 100% solved.

                  Regards,

                  Comment

                  • Thuppu
                    S2Forum Freak
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 4115
                    • Country: Finland

                    #10
                    I'm sure those bores will be fine to the power limit of the stock pistons, 700-800hp. A bigger piston to wall clearance with the OEM pistons is only a good thing at that level.

                    Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
                    Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
                    BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
                    BMW 740iA e38 - Project

                    Comment

                    • pasbogdan
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 1160
                      • Country: Romania

                      #11
                      Those bores can be 81.19mm Thuppu.We see only the wear marks.So piston to bore clearance could be much more than a good thing

                      Comment

                      • Thuppu
                        S2Forum Freak
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 4115
                        • Country: Finland

                        #12
                        Sure they can be, everything is possibly. Factory spec wear limit is 81.09mm. But then again, it's for a stock setup. But you are right, that to be sure, they would need to be measured.

                        Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
                        Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
                        BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
                        BMW 740iA e38 - Project

                        Comment

                        • k.alle
                          S2Forum Maniac
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 801
                          • Country: Sweden

                          #13
                          Well i'll probably not go as far as measure the bores.
                          The workshop that has carried out this work is very reputable and known to not cut corners.

                          I just got surprised by those markings and curious to the science behind them.

                          When I left the block with them I told them to check everything so that it was within spec as the block was an unknown to me.
                          Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
                          http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

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