1990 CQ - 7A not starting

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  • etsola
    S2Forum Addict
    • Feb 2015
    • 285
    • Country: Canada

    #1

    1990 CQ - 7A not starting

    Hi there, I'm new here and need a little help trying to figure out my issue.

    I've checked a LOT of things already and am looking for advice - similar situations that were resolved (hopefully).

    My Audi is a 1990, 90 Coupe Quattro 1st Gen (pre-March 1990 with the Hitachi components instead of Bosch).

    Maybe a month ago, I did a little trip of 150km up north to go see a Rallye. Everything was going fine on the way there and no weird noise or losses of power or anything of that sort.

    Upon arrival, I started having issues - If I went past the 1/4 of the throttle, the engine would not catch up - If I remained a low throttle and idle - I could run - slowly.

    I stopped at a gas station and checked a few things - Bought also a fuel defreezer (I'm in Canada, it was maybe -30 degrees Celcius that day !!) - Checked air box, vaccums lines, connectors, put back everything together.

    We tried to move along - and slowly the issue got worse - up to a point were I couldn't even move the car - Idle was still fine.

    Checked another bunch of things - added a ton fuel defreezer and let the engine run at idle for at least an hour (no if water there was - most likely was dissolved at that point).

    Came back the next day - wouldn't start - hasn't kept idle for more than 5 seconds since - it is definitely trying but something is off.

    Forwarding to the actual testing I did after I towed baxk the car back to my place.

    What was tested/checked :

    -Tried to pull the codes - but I disconnected the battery while trying to put a bulb in the cluster for the Check Engine light -So i guess they're gone since none were there.
    -I did the output mode, aside from the injectors (didn't hear them click since didn't I needed to put it at WOT - IMPORTANT - Now if I run the output mode, it skips completely the injector part - tried 3-4 times and goes directly from the Fuel pump relay (which I hear) to the ISV. The do squirt seemingly fine since I pulled the rail and cranked the engine. Relevant that the output mode skips that part !?!?

    -I have spark - that seem decent from the looks of it.
    -I have gas - Fuel pressure is 90 PSI before FPR and 60 PSI after (not sure of that reading anymore but was on spec as per the Bentley).
    -MAF readings are on spec as per the ones that can be obtained from a non-runnning car.
    -TPS and idle switch also.
    -Coil on spec - tried with a spare anyways.
    -ISV on spec - tried also with a spare.
    -Bypassed water coolant temp with another one - was tough to get resistance readings on it - Even though the ECU is supposed to read 20 deg Celsius if no readings are obtained (but it is somewhat sold up here so maybe ... jus maybe) so used another Audi one with proper resistance readings - same difference.
    -Checked Ignition reference sensor on Flywheel - "dolly pin" is there and not gunked. Removed sensors (they were gunked and thought I had found the culprit) and tested with spares - Nothing.
    -Checked distributor - a little bit dirty but nothing to be worried.
    -Spark plug cables (I think were replaced not so long agao - looked pretty new) and spark plugs seem ok.
    -Hall sensor readings are difficult to obtain since the refer to a special tool to check it ... And the car need to be running for 1 part and I do have spark - from what I understood - I wouldn't if the hall sensor was defective ?
    -Unplugged wiring harness from the ECU and checked for corrosion - reseated/reconnected it.
    -Check timing belt (was replaced 12k km ago from the previous owner, thought might've been loose and jumped a few tooth) - everything was tight and on spec (wasn't able to find the TDC mark on the flyheel though).

    That's where I'm at ... Any ideas because I'm about to change bit by bit in a crab shoot to try ot fix things.

    I ordered another ECU from a European fellow and am waiting for it to test.

    Questions I have :

    -If a TPS is defective - would the car still start ? I think so bu want to make sure.
    -Would a defective MAF prevent the car from starting ? (don't think so but want to be sure)
    -Would a defective Hall sensor prevent the car from starting while there is spark ?
    -Is the fact that the output mode of the fault diagnosis skips the Injector part relvant ?
    -034 injector kit (stock) was put in bypassing the resistor pack - Can somebody mess that up ? Anybody has stories of them failing ?

    Anything would help ...

    Thanks
  • bluequattro
    S2Forum Fiend
    • Nov 2004
    • 2960
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    It's in a sulk because you went to look at another car.
    Tell it you won't do it again and it will start.
    Seriously though
    Do you know if the second hand parts you ve out on are good?

    Comment

    • Error404
      Super Moderator
      • Mar 2007
      • 19789
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      MAFs can cause problems on the 7A IME. Try unplugging the it and see if it will idle (it will be dog rough, but should start and idle with the MAF uplugged)
      Check the dizzy and it's orientation very thoroughly they can be a pain to set up on the 7A due to access. If the dizzy is out of alignment it won't start.
      Hall sensor you can test with an LED. They are dead simple things -+12v, earth and output signal. Determine the +12v and earth pins, then put the LED across the output and earth pins (you can pull back the boot on the stock connector to access the pins or make a little adapter or something.
      Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
      Indigo ABY coupé
      Imola B6 S4 Avant

      Comment

      • Mikes2
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Jul 2003
        • 1704
        • Country: Scotland

        #4
        You should try and start, leave the ignition on and pull the codes again.

        Almost sounds like a blocked cat or fuel pressure problems
        Mike

        http://www.s2-audi.co.uk

        Comment

        • etsola
          S2Forum Addict
          • Feb 2015
          • 285
          • Country: Canada

          #5
          Originally posted by Error404
          MAFs can cause problems on the 7A IME. Try unplugging the it and see if it will idle (it will be dog rough, but should start and idle with the MAF uplugged)
          Check the dizzy and it's orientation very thoroughly they can be a pain to set up on the 7A due to access. If the dizzy is out of alignment it won't start.
          Hall sensor you can test with an LED. They are dead simple things -+12v, earth and output signal. Determine the +12v and earth pins, then put the LED across the output and earth pins (you can pull back the boot on the stock connector to access the pins or make a little adapter or something.
          What would mean by dizzy pin?
          When it was still able to idle, I unplugged the MAF and the engine died.

          Thanks for the info on the Hall sensor - But does it matter knowing that I do have spark?


          Thanks

          Comment

          • etsola
            S2Forum Addict
            • Feb 2015
            • 285
            • Country: Canada

            #6
            Originally posted by bluequattro
            It's in a sulk because you went to look at another car.
            Tell it you won't do it again and it will start.
            Seriously though
            Do you know if the second hand parts you ve out on are good?
            The worst part is that I didn't go see another car... I bought an AAN engine for a turbo swap the day before!!!

            Comment

            • etsola
              S2Forum Addict
              • Feb 2015
              • 285
              • Country: Canada

              #7
              Originally posted by Mikes2
              You should try and start, leave the ignition on and pull the codes again.

              Almost sounds like a blocked cat or fuel pressure problems

              I did so - got 2112 if I'm not mistaken - that's the ignition reference sensor - after I had checked and changed it and didn't start still - I've read that this code can come up as a false positive when the engine doesn't start...

              This brings me to Bluequattro' comment also -

              How do I test the G4 sensor aside from the resistance readings? Is it possible to test it while cranking?

              The other parts - ISV and coil - haven't tested too...

              The fuel pressure I've checked - and everything was on spec...

              Would a blocked cat prevent the car from starting altogether?!?

              Comment

              • A1QSHIP
                S2Forum Maniac
                • Aug 2004
                • 975
                • Country: United States

                #8
                Originally posted by etsola
                -034 injector kit (stock) was put in bypassing the resistor pack - Can somebody mess that up ? Anybody has stories of them failing ?

                Anything would help ...

                Thanks
                This. I had nearly the same issue. Turned out to be a poor connection in the resistor bypass harness. Took the bypass harness apart & repaired the connector. My 7A Coupe would not run the injector test either. Did not try & retest after repairing connector. Car has been fine since.
                HTH, Chris
                "Nulla tenaci invia est via"

                Comment

                • etsola
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Feb 2015
                  • 285
                  • Country: Canada

                  #9
                  Originally posted by A1QSHIP
                  This. I had nearly the same issue. Turned out to be a poor connection in the resistor bypass harness. Took the bypass harness apart & repaired the connector. My 7A Coupe would not run the injector test either. Did not try & retest after repairing connector. Car has been fine since.
                  HTH, Chris
                  Did you still have fuel coimng out of the injectors ?

                  Thanks a lot !! I'll be checking that out this afternoon !!

                  Comment

                  • A1QSHIP
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 975
                    • Country: United States

                    #10
                    I did not check for fuel from the injectors. My car did not fail to start or run but just ran poorly. I think my bypass harness was only bad on just a few cylinders. Worth a check anyway. I only discovered this after I noticed that the injector test would not perform the test. Like you I checked many other things first. I purchased the car with the injector upgrade already installed. It was sort of a last resort before checking wiring continuity of the entire fuel injection system.
                    Chris
                    "Nulla tenaci invia est via"

                    Comment

                    • John.
                      S2Forum Fiend
                      • May 2012
                      • 2615
                      • Country: Scotland

                      #11
                      Any further forward with this?

                      Comment

                      • etsola
                        S2Forum Addict
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 285
                        • Country: Canada

                        #12
                        Not much... Haven't had much time to work on it lately... The only thing relevant I can think of is the Hall sender that I should test today. If it's not that... Then I'll really be lost...

                        I did clear the bypass harness for the injectors.

                        There was a previously saudered wire on the hall sensor connector that I redid... Didn't change a thing...

                        Received another ECU and just plugged it to test... No go.

                        I'll test and probably dismantle the hall today.

                        I'll post afterwards.

                        Thanks

                        Comment

                        • etsola
                          S2Forum Addict
                          • Feb 2015
                          • 285
                          • Country: Canada

                          #13
                          Update :

                          Yesterday, as I wanted to test the Hall sensor, it started and Idled !! But same as before, would not catch on when gas was given.

                          So, up here in Canada, it was hotter than in the past few months - i.e. close to 0*C and sun was hitting my hood.

                          May it have something to do with the air/fuel mixture since temperatur *might* have something to do with it ?

                          I did disconnect the MAF at that point and it died - Should it ?

                          I also got the codes after letting it run a bit andonly got 2242 - which is the CO readings of the MAF - This must've happened since I disconnected it.

                          I also changed the FPR for a used spare I had - same difference.

                          This is where I left it yesterday and will most likely try to clear the codes again.

                          Any thoughts with that newly brought info ?

                          Thanks

                          Comment

                          • John.
                            S2Forum Fiend
                            • May 2012
                            • 2615
                            • Country: Scotland

                            #14
                            Have you had the distributor out? Gear broken perhaps?

                            Comment

                            • etsola
                              S2Forum Addict
                              • Feb 2015
                              • 285
                              • Country: Canada

                              #15
                              No I didn't yet. But I do have good fire in sequence. Wouldn't a bad gear affect that ? I just learned that the are the same as the 2.0L 16v from VW ... so I might try and source one. I have a used MAF and TPS coming from the other side of the pond shortly. But I will also be able to test them while I have a running engine - which I couldn't do before.

                              Thanks for the reply

                              Comment

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