Help!! Engine doctor required!

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  • S2Roo
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Feb 2004
    • 191
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Help!! Engine doctor required!

    I was trying to undo my crankshaft pulley bolt, with the engine locked using the locking tool, and the crankshaft now turns without the pulley turning!!!! I believe this means the woodruff key has sheared off my pully. Does anyone know how I can lock the engine to get this bolt out, without damaging the gear box!!!!!!!

    I hope there is a solution to this, as I fear this may write my engine off!!

    S2Roo
  • 90quattrocoupe
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Nov 2003
    • 771
    • Country: United States

    #2
    Since the woodruff key, or the pulley are gone. just drill or grind off the head of the bolt.

    Greg
    They can have my car when they pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel.

    Comment

    • kwlw
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Sep 2004
      • 1025
      • Country: Lithuania

      #3
      I'm afraid that I could not understand your problem correctly. But as far I understand, you locked the belt pulley, which drives hydraulic pump and stuff. There were some problems, and now you need to get big bolt out to check what happened right ? So there is risky and dirty solution. You buy big cheap and good screwdriver. I don't know is it possible for you, but our local tools shop sels these, made in chinia, but good (sounds impossible). I mean really big, from good steel. You can try to brake end of it if you wil be successfull, then go find another, which is stronger . Take crankshaft reference sensors out WITH the plate of alloy which holds them. You will see flywheel teeth and a place where to hold screwdriver. Now the most important part is to match big screwdriver and these tooths. Some machining may be needed. Using some mind and force (force alone will break tooths or gearbox case 100%), also another pair of hands (a must) you can lock engine. IMPORTANT! THIS IS BAD SOLUTION! It must be used only in case you cannot lock crankshaft otherwise (which I believe is your situation). It is NOT GOOD for bearings, crankshaft, and of course of flywheel teeth. If you will break one, it is not the end of the world, this wil mean, you will need to maintain your starter more offten . If you will brake two, YOU WILL NEED TO CHANGE FLYWHEEL.

      Sau
      P.S. Procedure mentioned above is EVIL!
      Last edited by kwlw; 26 February 2005, 13:09.
      200 20vt 88' 3b, human carrier
      CQ typ85 with AAN inside, see project blog at http://kwlw.blogspot.com

      Comment

      • kwlw
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Sep 2004
        • 1025
        • Country: Lithuania

        #4
        This is a close up photo how the teeth look like. Shape of the screwdriver end should match gap as good as it can just to hold all this force.
        Attached Files
        200 20vt 88' 3b, human carrier
        CQ typ85 with AAN inside, see project blog at http://kwlw.blogspot.com

        Comment

        • Gringo
          S2Forum Enthusiast
          • Jan 2005
          • 139
          • Country: United States

          #5
          Originally posted by kwlw
          If you will brake two, YOU WILL NEED TO CHANGE FLYWHEEL.
          Where do you get this info from ? If you dont know what you are talking about then don`t talk please. The teeth are not a part of the flywheel, it`s a loose teethed ring wich is shrinked on to the flywheel.

          Try locking the engine by sticking it in gear and applying the brakes. If the bolt was tightend by factory or a professional it was tightened to 350nm with the special VAG tool or 450nm without it. Loosening it requiers considerable force.

          Good luck, you`ll need it ( no pun intended ).
          Now you see me, now you don`t

          80quattro.com

          Comment

          • kwlw
            S2Forum Extremist
            • Sep 2004
            • 1025
            • Country: Lithuania

            #6
            Originally posted by Gringo
            Where do you get this info from ? If you dont know what you are talking about then don`t talk please. The teeth are not a part of the flywheel, it`s a loose teethed ring wich is shrinked on to the flywheel.
            I have a car with one tooth missing on this flywheel. I know, I'm stupid , also I've seen, that you can buy ring of teeth separately. However I have tried to take this ring off, but unsuccessfully. Maybe special equipment or maybe knowledge of some tricks is needed, but I could not disassemble fllywheel myself. So I've bought new bolts and changed whole flywheel.

            Sau
            200 20vt 88' 3b, human carrier
            CQ typ85 with AAN inside, see project blog at http://kwlw.blogspot.com

            Comment

            • slow2
              S2Forum Addict
              • Apr 2004
              • 238
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              Originally posted by S2Roo
              I was trying to undo my crankshaft pulley bolt, with the engine locked using the locking tool, and the crankshaft now turns without the pulley turning!!!! I believe this means the woodruff key has sheared off my pully. Does anyone know how I can lock the engine to get this bolt out, without damaging the gear box!!!!!!!

              I hope there is a solution to this, as I fear this may write my engine off!!

              S2Roo

              hi s2roo
              have you taken the 4 allen key bolts out of the centre of crank pulley?

              put them back in and try again,

              i had same problems as you until i seen my mistake
              hope its as easy as that
              Dez

              Never did overtime until i purchased........s2

              Comment

              • S2Roo
                S2Forum Enthusiast
                • Feb 2004
                • 191
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                I didn't take the four allen bolts out, so I am 99% sure the woodruff key has sheared.

                I didn't think the gearbox could take the load of undoing the bolt.

                If I drill the head of the bolt off, how would I get the bolt out? I think it would still be very difficult to get out.

                S2roo

                Comment

                • Mihnea
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 1288
                  • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

                  #9
                  Nice one, if you lock the engine by holding it by the flywheel, you have a fair chance of bending the crankshaft. Believe me, I have already seen this. Breaking 1 or 2 teeth on the starter ring also means flywheel out job. Nice!!!

                  Mihnea

                  Originally posted by Gringo
                  Where do you get this info from ? If you dont know what you are talking about then don`t talk please. The teeth are not a part of the flywheel, it`s a loose teethed ring wich is shrinked on to the flywheel.

                  Try locking the engine by sticking it in gear and applying the brakes. If the bolt was tightend by factory or a professional it was tightened to 350nm with the special VAG tool or 450nm without it. Loosening it requiers considerable force.

                  Good luck, you`ll need it ( no pun intended ).
                  '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

                  www.MRCTuning.com
                  info@MRCTuning.com
                  Workshop Directions

                  Comment

                  • slow2
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 238
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Originally posted by S2Roo
                    I didn't take the four allen bolts out, so I am 99% sure the woodruff key has sheared.

                    I didn't think the gearbox could take the load of undoing the bolt.

                    If I drill the head of the bolt off, how would I get the bolt out? I think it would still be very difficult to get out.

                    S2roo

                    you could also try using high torque impact gun (if you have acsess to 1)
                    Dez

                    Never did overtime until i purchased........s2

                    Comment

                    • 90quattrocoupe
                      S2Forum Maniac
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 771
                      • Country: United States

                      #11
                      Originally posted by S2Roo

                      If I drill the head of the bolt off, how would I get the bolt out? I think it would still be very difficult to get out.

                      S2roo
                      OK,
                      1) After you have drilled or ground off the the head of the bolt, the pulley will come off. You no longer have 350lbs of torque on the bolt.
                      2) You will have a short stub sticking out of the end of the crank. This should allow you to either drill out the center of the bolt and use an easy out, or use a very large type of vice grips. Without torque on the bolt, it should come out.


                      Just one possiblity
                      Greg
                      They can have my car when they pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel.

                      Comment

                      • Billman
                        S2Forum Freak
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 4129

                        #12
                        I dont know how to repair this but i get the screw from the pulley with An air screwdriver thats is for unbolt wheels from Tracktors (farmer cars) a REAL big one! That was done without any locking tool! I could not unscrew it with the locking tool and a normal air pistol from the Garage!
                        Go Holset or Go RS4

                        Comment

                        • porkkis
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 1994
                          • Country: Finland

                          #13
                          The only correct way to lock the engine is from the front pulley with original tool or self made similar tool. All others may do damage. Believe me.
                          -

                          Comment

                          • Gringo
                            S2Forum Enthusiast
                            • Jan 2005
                            • 139
                            • Country: United States

                            #14
                            Originally posted by porkkis
                            The only correct way to lock the engine is from the front pulley with original tool or self made similar tool. All others may do damage. Believe me.
                            But the tool is no longer an option ....

                            I still think locking it in gear and applying the brakes should do the trick. I wouldn`t worry to much about the gearbox as it handles a lot more Nm than 450Nm in a tuned car.

                            Footnote;
                            To replace teeth on the flywheel. Undo flywheel. Chisel the broken one of without damaging the actual flywheel. The new one has to be heated quite a bit before installation. Use a propane burner or acetylene torch. Ease the new ring into place with a pair of pliers and let cool. When it cools it shrinks and jams itself in place.
                            Now you see me, now you don`t

                            80quattro.com

                            Comment

                            • Mikes2
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 1704
                              • Country: Scotland

                              #15
                              There are holes in the flywheel which can be lined up with external holes in the bell housing (note that engine will not be at TDC in this position).

                              Use a large bolt (M12) through the hole in the bell housing and through the flywheel. This will lock the engine.
                              Mike

                              http://www.s2-audi.co.uk

                              Comment

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