Are all 0-280-150-951s created equal?

[Dift]

There is a bit of information on the Internet suggesting two types of Bosch injectors (0280-150-951).
The ANN/ABY flow 280 @ 3 bar, however there is a few suggestions of a Porsche 0208-150-951 injector flowing the exact same as the RS2 injectors.

Has anyone come across this before?
Is the only way to check the flow to bench test them? Or is it safe to run them gently on a rolling road and see if they lean out (ECU and turbo RS2+ Spec)?

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/InjectorRatesBosch.html Has two entries for the injectors (one at RS2 spec, other at standard AAN/ABY.
http://www.205gti.com/bosch/injectors.htm Quotes Porsche ones at RS2 spec.

Anyone have an opinion? The injectors in question come from an MTM converted rs2 spec S4 (0208 150 951 code)

[UrS4boy]

Fuel Injector Info

Anyone have an opinion? The injectors in question come from an MTM converted rs2 spec S4 (0208 150 951 code)

Fuel Injector Flow Info:

AAN and ABY: Audi PN 034 906 031 B, Bosch PN: 0 280 150 951, flow:
280 cc/ min @ 3.0 bar (= about 26.7 lb/hr at SG = 0.72)
315 cc/ min @ 3.8 bar
323 cc/ min @ 4.0 bar
361 cc/ min @ 5.0 bar

ADU: Audi PN 034 906 031 F, Bosch PN: 0 280 150 984, flow:
360 cc/ min @ 3.0 bar (= about 34.3 lb/hr at SG = 0.72)
405 cc/ min @ 3.8 bar
416 cc/ min @ 4.0 bar
465 cc/ min @ 5.0 bar

Fuel Injector Info:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20441.phtml

[Dift]

Thanks Dave,

Do you think the above websites are wrong, they quote two flows for the same injectors?

Would a car be safe to run on potentially the wrong injectors... I guess it would lean out very early on? Is a bench flow test the only safe way to measure?

[Greg_S]

Its most likely that the figures shown have different pressure rates. Also the 205 site doesn't specify the fuel pressure

[UrS4boy]

Do you think the above websites are wrong, they quote two flows for the same injectors? Would a car be safe to run on potentially the wrong injectors... I guess it would lean out very early on? Is a bench flow test the only safe way to measure?

Based on the sequence of numbers in the table, I think there is a typo in the designation of one of the 951s, probably the first one should be 949 or 950, not 951.

0-280-150-947 24.25 254.9 183.3 39.15 2.7
0-280-150-948 24.25 254.9 183.3 39.15 2.7
0-280-150-951 32.9 345.8 248.7 43.5 3
0-280-150-951 28.55 300.1 215.8 43.5 3
0-280-150-952 25 262.8 189 - -
0-280-150-953 19.5 204.9 147.4 - -

Running stock AAN injectors with an RS2 turbo and RS2 (plus) software will max out the injectors and will very likely lead to very damaging pre-detonation, i.e. pinging (pinking) = engine damage.

Not sure what the situation exactly is but if I remember correctly MTM did have an option where the AAN turbo was upgraded to the RS2 turbo but the injectors were kept stock. However, the software kept the horsepower down, BELOW stock RS2 315 hp levels, to match with the capabilites of the stock AAN injectors. Might have been called Stage 2.

[UrS4boy]

Running stock AAN injectors with an RS2 turbo and RS2 (plus) software will max out the injectors and will very likely lead to very damaging pre-detonation, i.e. pinging (pinking) = engine damage.

Not sure what the situation exactly is but if I remember correctly MTM did have an option where the AAN turbo was upgraded to the RS2 turbo but the injectors were kept stock. However, the software kept the horsepower down, BELOW stock RS2 315 hp levels, to match with the capabilites of the stock AAN injectors. Might have been called Stage 2.

Okay, my initial memory was wrong. There was an MTM option that *RAISED* the hp levels *ABOVE* the stock RS2 315 hp levels. This comes from me contacting Mike Hoppen, son of Josef Hoppen (RIP) of Hoppen Motorsports in Florida USA in January, 2007. This is Mike's response:

"Hi Dave,

Sorry it took so long but the holidays really put us behind. Attached is a listing of the items we still offer for the Ur-S4/S6.

UR S4/S6 Performance
2/2007

Software:

MTM 280HP software with 3 bar sensor $725
Designed to be used with original turbo)

MTM 335HP software with 3 bar sensor $795
Designed to be used with RS2 turbo, RS2 exh. manifold and OE injectors)

MTM 350HP software with 3 bar sensor $850
Designed to be used with RS2 turbo, RS2 exh. manifold and RS2 injectors)

Items:

RS2 turbocharger $1,650
RS2 exhaust manifold $1,190
RS2 injector set $695
MTM sport turbo pressure hose $270
MTM sport lower intercooler hose $240

Bosch sport 110 diverter valve $55
K&N high flow air filter $45

Best Regards,
Mike Hoppen
Joe Hoppen Motorsport"

NOTE: Hoppen Motorsport seems to be out of business and their website has been suspended (didn't pay their bills?).

Reference: http://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi...ducts-2167127/

[Dift]

Thanks Dave!

Looks like I'm back to looking for injectors again.

[Error404]

Would a car be safe to run on potentially the wrong injectors...

No way! Don't risk it.

[Dift]

Anyone got any RS2 injectors?

Need some this week otherwise my planned road trip goes down the pan.

Happy to pay and borrow some.

I think what Dave says makes perfect sense in regards to MTM. I think all reference to the 951s on line which claim to flow the same as RS2s appears to have a common (incorrect) origin.

[AndyP]

Anybody tried using these Bosch injectors in an RS2 spec car?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-S2-S6...item1c50d51b36

[Dift]

Looks like they flow more than RS2s.

Are you looking to buy these? They are just down the road from me.

[AndyP]

Looks like they flow more than RS2s.

Are you looking to buy these? They are just down the road from me.

Not looking to buy, just looking for an alternative to the RS2's. Do a Google search on that part number, different sites quote differnt flow rates, most of them quote them as 360cc.

If they're local to you might be worth calling in for a chat, if they have an ASNU machine, they can check the flow rate anyway

[Dift]

Hi Andy, I was just checking you weren't interested in them before I considered them further.

I've done my research on them, even quoting the flow the company claim it is only 11.5cc at 3 bar and 12cc difference at 4 bar, so barely different?
I can't see it making much difference?

I may not have them fitted to the car for very long in any event if my ECU and injectors ever turn up.

I've asked the company for a flow sheet for them, so will wait and see.

Thanks for your help Andy.

[Dift]

I have spoken to the owner of the company and he is going away to look at the spray pattern of the Saab injectors, he may also know someone with RS2 injectors.
So it was a good find Andy. Thank you.

[Dift]

I've been told the RS2s come with a 16 degree cone spray pattern (4 holes?). The 0280150431 injectors flow 371cc at 3bar with a 24 degree spray pattern.

Anyone know if 8 degrees matters in our engines? These Saab injectors certainly appear plentiful and cheap, they would also potentially benefit chipsets which push the RS2 injectors (to the tune of an extra 11.5cc )