Turbo - now you feel me, now you dont!

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  • LYT4X
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Jul 2008
    • 177
    • Country: Scotland

    #1

    Turbo - now you feel me, now you dont!

    I have a feeling that I'm going to be directed to the N75 valve here, but I thought I'd take the time to explain what's happening and look for a second opinion, before I start pulling bits off the car.

    A very standard ADU RS2 running exceptionally well, starts first time, pulls like a train, no smoke etc. A week ago, I pulled-out to pass a bus on a highland road in 6th gear at about 50mph. Half-way past the bus, I suddenly realised that the turbo had effectively failed to operate! Perhaps it was just me? I'd been pulling and spooling in 6th at much higher speeds earlier in the day, so maybe I was just going too slow for top gear....... Nope!

    I was now driving, to all intents and purposes, a normally aspirated i5 20v. The car went well enough and would rev to 7k quite happily, it just didn't rush to get there.

    A few miles down the road, that familiar whoosing tune re-appeared, along with the commensurate grin on my face.

    Since that day, I've had a turbo which effectively pleases itself. Sometimes (most times) it works, but occasionally it just takes a wee holiday and the car runs perfectly fine up the rev range, but without the anticipated vigour.

    I can't see this being a serious mechanical issue and I suspect the N75 has become eratic. Just wondered if this is a familiar tale to anyone?
    John

    A Small Collection...
  • Greg_S
    Administrator
    • Jul 2003
    • 12430
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Check the fault codes first. Most likely is a boost leak as 6th gear and 50mph would be a higher load.

    Also check the mfts sensor

    What are boost levels like on your gauge, assuming you have one?
    Greg

    S2Forum.com Administrator & Webmaster

    '93 Coupe with a few tweeks

    Comment

    • LYT4X
      S2Forum Enthusiast
      • Jul 2008
      • 177
      • Country: Scotland

      #3
      Thanks for your reply Greg. I don't have any way to check fault codes, but it's not a boost leak. I say this assuming that a boost leak would give the same result as my 20v ur (RR) quattro - like hitting a brick wall when the fuel is shut-off.

      The loss of turbo can be perfectly apparent in any gear (not just 6th). Quite amusing in 1st, as it gives you time to change into 2nd!! There's no loss mid-spool - it's either there or it's not.

      No gauge in this RS2 (my other one has a boost gauge, but it's getting junked as I'm becoming an old fart who likes things to be standard).

      Anyway, MFTS sensor????
      John

      A Small Collection...

      Comment

      • UrS4boy
        S2Forum Obsessed
        • Feb 2006
        • 11859
        • Country: Canada

        #4
        Originally posted by LYT4X
        1. I don't have any way to check fault codes,
        2. but it's not a boost leak. I say this assuming that a boost leak would give the same result as my 20v ur (RR) quattro - like hitting a brick wall when the fuel is shut-off.
        3. No gauge in this RS2 (my other one has a boost gauge, but it's getting junked as I'm becoming an old fart who likes things to be standard).
        4. Anyway, MFTS sensor????
        I think I am probably older and fartier than you so I feel obligated to provide the following comments:

        1. BS. If you love your RS2 and are going to keep it, don't whing about not being able to pull the codes, enable yourself:



        2. Sure. Magically, without a boost gauge and without pulling codes, you *know* its not a boost leak. There is only one way to know that for 100% and that is actually testing for leaks:



        3. Install a boost gauge. Useful for all sorts of 20VT diagnostics, There should have been one there from the factory. Make it so: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/328247.phtml

        4. MFTS = multifunction temperature switch - on the ABY and ADU there is a connection between it and the ECU that will limit boost in some conditions:

        The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums




        I'm sure the problem won't be serious. But you will need to fix it.

        BTW: You should have dropped a gear at least before attempting that pass (in my opinion).
        RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
        94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

        Comment

        • LYT4X
          S2Forum Enthusiast
          • Jul 2008
          • 177
          • Country: Scotland

          #5
          Originally posted by UrS4boy
          You should have dropped a gear at least before attempting that pass (in my opinion).




          But I'm not fitting a boost gauge....

          Does the ADU not do the same as the RR with a boost leak (ie: shut down the fuel to give the effect of hitting a brick wall)?
          John

          A Small Collection...

          Comment

          • RichLV
            S2Forum Maniac
            • Mar 2015
            • 872
            • Country: Latvia

            #6
            Originally posted by LYT4X




            But I'm not fitting a boost gauge....

            Does the ADU not do the same as the RR with a boost leak (ie: shut down the fuel to give the effect of hitting a brick wall)?
            Boost gauge is a very handy instrument with these cars.

            Depends on the severity of the leak. If you blow off a pressure hose, then you'll hit a brick wall, if it's a minor leak, then you just won't get full boost. Also mixture adaptation codes will be thrown (lambda control also possible) - additive if idle, multiplicative if under load. Floating/increased idle also possible.
            Last edited by RichLV; 22 May 2016, 22:35.

            Comment

            • LYT4X
              S2Forum Enthusiast
              • Jul 2008
              • 177
              • Country: Scotland

              #7
              So, can a 'boost leak' be occasional?

              I think of it like a water pipe - if there's a hole, there will be a puddle. Am I thinking the wrong way?
              John

              A Small Collection...

              Comment

              • RichLV
                S2Forum Maniac
                • Mar 2015
                • 872
                • Country: Latvia

                #8
                Originally posted by LYT4X
                So, can a 'boost leak' be occasional?

                I think of it like a water pipe - if there's a hole, there will be a puddle. Am I thinking the wrong way?
                I would say in case maybe a clamp is loose or bad, e.g. the hose sticks and holds until it gets pressure. Just a speculation though.

                Comment

                • UrS4boy
                  S2Forum Obsessed
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 11859
                  • Country: Canada

                  #9
                  Originally posted by LYT4X
                  So, can a 'boost leak' be occasional?
                  Sorry. Yes. If you took the time to read through my boost leak post link that I provided, you will find several examples of boost hoses with splits that do not open up until a certain boost is reached (varies car to car, hose to hose), then it will start discharging pressurized air, confusing the living sh@t out of the ECU which was expecting that air when it got the MAF signal and decided what the fueling requirements needed to be.

                  This is the type of boost hose that will operate in the manner described above, i.e. perfectly fine and then a leak.

                  Still think that every RS2 should have a boost gauge.

                  RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                  94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                  Comment

                  • LYT4X
                    S2Forum Enthusiast
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 177
                    • Country: Scotland

                    #10
                    90% of the time, I have a perfectly functioning engine. Just occasionally (when I need to pass something) I have a normally aspirated motor - not even a hint of boost.
                    John

                    A Small Collection...

                    Comment

                    • LYT4X
                      S2Forum Enthusiast
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 177
                      • Country: Scotland

                      #11
                      OK, thanks for the responses - I will have a look at the pipework.
                      John

                      A Small Collection...

                      Comment

                      • UrS4boy
                        S2Forum Obsessed
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 11859
                        • Country: Canada

                        #12
                        Originally posted by LYT4X
                        90% of the time, I have a perfectly functioning engine. Just occasionally (when I need to pass something) I have a normally aspirated motor - not even a hint of boost.
                        You can keep telling us this story over and over but until you pull codes, do a boost leak test, install a boost gauge, etc., its all bunch of w**king.

                        Originally posted by LYT4X
                        OK, thanks for the responses - I will have a look at the pipework.
                        Looking won't get you very much. You've got to muck in there and pressurize the system.

                        Sorry, just me being an old fart with no patience.

                        RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                        94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                        Comment

                        • LYT4X
                          S2Forum Enthusiast
                          • Jul 2008
                          • 177
                          • Country: Scotland

                          #13
                          Originally posted by UrS4boy
                          Sorry, just me being an old fart with no patience.
                          Completely understood
                          John

                          A Small Collection...

                          Comment

                          • mike74
                            S2Forum Maniac
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 615
                            • Country: Scotland

                            #14
                            To do a leak test all you need is a baked bean can (brand unimportant), a 20mm diameter plug like a 1/2"-3/8" square drive adapter and a foot pump or compressor. Disconnect the crankcase breather tube that goes to the MAF hose and install 20mm bung AT THE MAF SIDE; leave the engine side unblocked. Remove MAF and replace with baked bean can. Others may disagree but I pull the BPV vacuum pipe off the inlet manifold and connect a pump in there. Pressurise the system and listen and/or look for leaks with soapy water.
                            The first time I did it took me longer to find a 20mm diameter bung than to actually do the test! HTH

                            Comment

                            • andy10v
                              S2Forum Zealot
                              • Mar 2009
                              • 5996
                              • Country: Scotland

                              #15
                              I would check for fault codes and do a boost leak test first as suggested above.

                              After that if no issues I would start to look at other things which can cause an intermittent loss of boost, eg;

                              n75
                              n75 wiring (check continuity/resistance, Martins 20vt 90 had a boost issue caused by the n75 wiring)
                              MFTS
                              MFTS plug
                              MFTS pins
                              MFTS wiring

                              etc
                              Current-2004 Impreza PPP wagon

                              Sold-92 3B coupe-RS2+, 996s, konis, rear torsen, forged rods........
                              Sold ABY-stock

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