cat but no lambda?? WHY?

[S-Express]

Can anyone advise?
I've just bought a '93 Audi 100 2.0 Avant, engine code AAD runs on the old K Jetronic injection.
Thing is.............its got a cat but I can't find a lambda!!!????
What's all that about then?? I suppose it doesn't have an ecu either then?
Surely with no lambda, i could eat a cat in a week with a rich running motor (and it was running very rich when I picked it up at the weekend )
help pleeeeeaaaasssseeeee.......

[Jas11n]

AAD is KE-Motronic, not Jetronic.
The Lambda is located in the downpipe.
It does have an ECU

[S2central.net]

Are you sure its K-Jetronic and not KE-Jetronic ?

K-Jetronic is a pure mechanical system - big air flappy paddle which meters how much fuel to provide... KE had some electronic controls but its sooh long ago I'd need to hit the books to remind me of details.

However, I don't see CAT and lambda as being intrinsically linked. The CAT will reduce harmful emissions. Lambda probes are used by ECUs for adaptive fuelling to keep you near ideal mixture (at least when cruising) - they don't need a CAT to do that job.

Tis true that leaded petrol will damage lambda probes and CATs but you'll not find that easily these days.


Paul

[Jas11n]

If the engine code is AAD it's KE-Motronic

[Keeper of The Kitten]

I agree with Paul, catalyst without lambda is no big deal - think about all those old yank tanks from the late 60s onwards, cats fitted on carbureted engines with no electronics whatsoever!

[S-Express]

Thanks Guys - there's definitely no lambda, no wires, no boss etc so not even one been ripped out.
So - do I need to keep the cat or can I legally remove it (car was born march 1993)

[S2central.net]

Think it needs to be reg'd before Sep or Oct 1992 to legally deCAT in UK...
Some MOT places will be fussier than others.

[dubmeister]

Thanks Guys - there's definitely no lambda, no wires, no boss etc so not even one been ripped out.
So - do I need to keep the cat or can I legally remove it (car was born march 1993)

You can remove the cat on any car- not having a cat is not a fail - It is the fact that without one it will fail the emissions!!!!

The emissions test for your car is:
First used between 1/8/92 and 31/7/94 - advanced emission test (CAT) if its running on petrol when presented, to the vehicle specific limits usually around CO<=0.3%, HC<=200ppm and Lambda 0.97 - 1.03 at a fast idle> 2500 rpm- then CO<=0.5% at idle.

I have checked all the info/special notices etc. and your car is not on the exempt cars list- check beforehand to see what readings your car gives.

I have had vehicles that have been manufactured before 08/92 but registered after that date which have obtained exemption certificates...check the build date if unsure..
HTH

[S-Express]

Thanks for all your help guys.....it appears I am a total bell end
The lambda is right underneath the car just before the cat and is positioned vertically so it can't be seen without getting right underneath.
I was expecting it to be much higher up the pipe as I know that they need to be as hot as possible.
I've now Vagcom'd it but it can't see the ecu (finds the abs and auto box ok tho).
Anyone know how to tune the KE-Mototronic for a bit more power?
thanks again for all the help - there's an awful lot of combined wisdom on this site!

[S2central.net]

There's not much puff to be had with K and KE systems... Just go on the adage that getting more air in there will bring the extra fuel required as its an adaptive system - until you hit its ceiling - which you wont without a turbo.

Airbox modifications for less restriction, better exhaust, improved head flow and maybe some lumpier cams but you'd need to make some careful choices from those who have proven out mods along the way.

I very much doubt it has a proper ECU anyway... KE Jetronic doesn't run off maps and such like Motronic. Get it to breath better and I guarantee it will produce more oomf and a better noise along the way.

[S-Express]

Sounds good cheers Paul, would just like it to pull the skin off a rice pudding - i'll be happy then...!

There's not much puff to be had with K and KE systems... Just go on the adage that getting more air in there will bring the extra fuel required as its an adaptive system - until you hit its ceiling - which you wont without a turbo.

Airbox modifications for less restriction, better exhaust, improved head flow and maybe some lumpier cams but you'd need to make some careful choices from those who have proven out mods along the way.

I very much doubt it has a proper ECU anyway... KE Jetronic doesn't run off maps and such like Motronic. Get it to breath better and I guarantee it will produce more oomf and a better noise along the way.