Opinions about Furans exhaust manifold?

[repo]

This one had constant abuse with over 1000c egts for I think two years more or less daily drive, before first cracks appeared.

I repaired it I think twice, after that.

Later, new owner fell in love for trackdays, and after appr. 100 laps on track, the wastegate connection had melted off. When trying to repair, the material was too soft to weld, so I had to make new manifold.

SO, if You have brace, that allows heat expansion, You can drive pretty long periods with tuby manifold. BUT, if Your egt is too high, nothing heps. Steel gets pretty soft at 1100 celsius...

http://audiclub.fi/index.php?mid=3&pid=14&dir=2005_J%E4%E4ratap%E4iv%E4_Pertunmaa&fpic=pertunmaa05_2005_01_13_019.jpg

[A80Avant]

so repo,
what you are saying is that a tubular manifold needs a good wastegate brace,a good flexi pipe on the downpipe and EGTs no more than 900C then?
would that make a tubular manifold last for a long time on normal everyday use+cruising+ occasional everyother day boosting?
Since im not planning on drag racing or track days(at least not more than once a year and that is again more or less not too much pushing the car) would that last quite a bit before cracking starts to make it's appearance?

Im thinking of solutions to match one of your 500-550hp turbos here.
Im pretty sure that the EVORS2 manifold is the best long term option but i fear that it might not be the best free flowing option for the turbo,and therefore end up having 450-460hp out of a 550hp capable turbo because of backpressure and lack of freeflowness..
am i wrong in my assumption?

[repo]

I have multilple customers, that have run for 40 - 50K kilometers with my manifolds, without cracking or other issues. I have a couple of customers, who have broken the manifolds with too high egt in first couple of hundred km's.

But yes, You need to have around 900 celsius egt limit before turbo, to enhance manifold longevity. And yes, You need flexi in the downpipe. And yes, You need supports to manifold/turbo AND downpipe. I am sure, if You go over 1000c with egt, also Wagner will start to crack. Surprizinlgy, I5 as a motor can take such heat. Normally 900c is kept as safe limit for MOTOR, not only the EM.

I haven't tested wagner stuff enough to say too much. I am sure a descent tubular will give more horsies than these casts, though. But like said, no first hand experience, so I am a bit reluctant to give any estimates.

[repo]

Ah, one thing more. Improperly paired turbo causes a LOT of heat stress in the exhaust area. And I mean especially these garrett nonsense 47mm turbine / 54mm compressor setups.

We have noted, that when You REALLY start to boost the car, the egt's go down. I am yet to see 850 celsius in Paavola's 970hp drag motor.

No backpressure, no heat. Simple.

[AllarN]

what is the difference of the furans and the www.cp-service.se EM?

different manufacturers
Both make high end intake & exaust manifolds and they have almost the same prices.

[G60Rallye]

This one had constant abuse with over 1000c egts for I think two years more or less daily drive, before first cracks appeared.

I repaired it I think twice, after that.

Later, new owner fell in love for trackdays, and after appr. 100 laps on track, the wastegate connection had melted off. When trying to repair, the material was too soft to weld, so I had to make new manifold.

SO, if You have brace, that allows heat expansion, You can drive pretty long periods with tuby manifold. BUT, if Your egt is too high, nothing heps. Steel gets pretty soft at 1100 celsius...

http://audiclub.fi/index.php?mid=3&p..._01_13_019.jpg

When you say have a brace that allows for heat expansion. Does this mean you dont want to have the turbo and manifold too solidly braced? You want to keep a little bit of movement?

Its something i have always wondered about, having the turbo supported, but not so solidly that when everything expands under heat it cant move to where it wants to because of the brace.

[GazzaG60]

i use 2 rose joints and a peice of flat steel. its primitive but works very well with the wagner. on the original intercooler setup its hard to make a triangulated brace.

no turbo issues at all. its the gate thats the issue.

i managed around 18000 miles on mine before issue. thats around 12 montrhs for me. then one day i heard a ticking noise. looked and saw a small crack. 3 weeks later i pulled the gate off with my hand.

since the EXTRA weld has been done its holding.

brace the gate, where to depends on the manifold. a few short pieces of steel around it may be enought welded back to thw manifold.

i have a flexy in my system too but they dont help the gate at all. in fact its more token jesture than anything.

gota agree with repo that egts drop under boost. i never see over 730c on EGT. i dont see over 680 on boost.

i thing the "been there and done that " factor of tubulars in scandinavia shows when you visit an event over there as you can see the evolutino of ideas following from incidents such as the cracking.