Intercoolers

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  • quattroTurbo
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Nov 2004
    • 178

    #31
    The pressure drop increases with larger intercoolers because more work is required to fill the extra capillaries with pressurised air. Someone asked the difference between plate and bar and fin and tube. Plate and bar has more meat to its air channels and has many more internal fins. It weighs more because it is designed to be that way - a heat sink - which is what an intercooler is. Fin and tube is more like a radiator, with less intricate internals and far less metal to act as an efficient heat sink.

    You can improve the efficiency of your larger intercooler by designing better (air-flow optimised) end tanks. This can be achieved with internal deflectors and vains. The examples on this thread look a bit sad in that respect.

    Comment

    • 4WheelDrifter
      S2Forum Zealot
      • Oct 2004
      • 5773
      • Country: Devon

      #32
      The trouble with making the core flow better, is that the air moves faster and has less chance to be cooled.
      SS

      Comment

      • Audi_CQ
        S2Forum Maniac
        • Mar 2004
        • 940
        • Country: Norway

        #33
        Originally posted by quattroTurbo
        The pressure drop increases with larger intercoolers because more work is required to fill the extra capillaries with pressurised air.

        You can improve the efficiency of your larger intercooler by designing better (air-flow optimised) end tanks. This can be achieved with internal deflectors and vains. The examples on this thread look a bit sad in that respect.


        A bit ekstra lag yes, but bigger pressure drop???
        The same amount of air is going through independent of IC size, so the pressure drop is smaller in a large IC because of less resistance.

        Another issue is that with larger IC's(many rows, not just extra lenght) the airspeed is lower and design of end tanks isn't so critical. My end tanks isn't excactly optimal, but it sure works

        Cheers,
        Roger

        Comment

        • quattroTurbo
          S2Forum Enthusiast
          • Nov 2004
          • 178

          #34
          Horsepower is dependent on flow. Restrictions reduce bhp, simple as that. A larger intercooler will reduce air speed, which when measured, will show reduced boost - always. No use saying it doesn't without actually testing your theories with proper measuring equipment. Installing a larger intercooler is a balancing act. Idealy, a 500mm x 280mm x 75mm core in plate and bar with well designed end tanks is all anyone would need for 500bhp+. If you are unhappy with that, then install Aquamist - but make sure you have a programmable ECU or you will loose power. The effect is like having a super large intercooler, but without the lag and pressure drop.

          Comment

          • sorens2
            S2Forum Addict
            • Feb 2004
            • 241
            • Country: Denmark

            #35
            Theory
            Attached Files
            Audi RS4 LO550

            BTG 8:08

            www.fredslunds.dk

            Comment

            • Audi_CQ
              S2Forum Maniac
              • Mar 2004
              • 940
              • Country: Norway

              #36
              Originally posted by quattroTurbo
              Horsepower is dependent on flow. Restrictions reduce bhp, simple as that.

              A larger intercooler will reduce air speed, which when measured, will show reduced boost - always.

              No use saying it doesn't without actually testing your theories with proper measuring equipment.

              1. Totally agree

              2. Large IC reduce airspeed through the IC yes and lower speed=less drag, but speed at inlet/outlet the same as small IC if openings are the same size on both IC's and the amount of air is similar(the amount the engine can "swallow" independent of IC)

              3. I havn't tested, just tried to remember what I learned at school about flow dynamics mixed with some common sense. I might be wrong so if you have tested please post results

              Happy New Year

              Roger

              Comment

              • Sweeper
                S2Forum Extremist
                • Jul 2003
                • 1317
                • Country: Latvia

                #37
                Roger brakes all our previous thoughts and dreams.

                Nice one. I'm for Hybrid intercooler , should be optium considering out space after bumper.
                Vadim.

                New engine (mechanical PKM head) , Alcon 332mm brakes , Pauter rods , Mahle pistons, GT30R , kw v2 sucpension , new exhaust. 608HP. For SALE !

                Comment

                • quattroTurbo
                  S2Forum Enthusiast
                  • Nov 2004
                  • 178

                  #38
                  There is a pressure drop because the intercooler acts like a valve. The air travelling into the intercooler looses some of its volume as it passes the intercooler, before it can be used by the engine. There is a very simple test. Take a boost reading before you install your larger intercooler, then after. There is always a pressure drop.

                  Comment

                  • sorens2
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 241
                    • Country: Denmark

                    #39
                    That´s true. Never heard of that teori before. But I can see that the cool air will loose volume. Thanks for the info.
                    Still I think that a large IC is for the better due to temperature drop.

                    Søren S2
                    Audi RS4 LO550

                    BTG 8:08

                    www.fredslunds.dk

                    Comment

                    • S2central.net
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 16590
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #40
                      Just remember n = PV/RT

                      Intercoolers are a compromise... The advantage of better cooled air temperature *may* be reduced if excessive pressure drop forces the turbo into less efficient operating range by nature of the higher pressure ratio needed to provide the target boost level in the manifold.



                      Paul
                      Paul Nugent
                      Webmaster http://S2central.net
                      Administrator http://S2forum.com

                      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                      Comment

                      • SteveH
                        Super Moderator
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 4460
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #41
                        Just got my intercooler from the States. It only took 3 days to get to the UK

                        I have the same unit as the one Sal has. Ordered the 3 inch unit and they sent a 4!!
                        Attached Files
                        91 Modded 3B
                        14 A6 Avant Black Edition

                        Comment

                        • Beetie
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 1517
                          • Country: England

                          #42
                          Nice one Steve! Just make sure they dont charge you for a 4" one!
                          Was a '93 3B, Dont ask now tho......

                          Comment

                          • audiman
                            S2Forum Freak
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 4827
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #43
                            Good luck fitting those 4" beasts. The 3" ones were bad enough. Gonna take some serious hacking up of the front bumper
                            sigpic
                            Tom C - www.rcmr.co.uk
                            Audi UR Quattro
                            Audi 100 C3 2.0 5 cyl 115ps
                            Audi S2 - 07k engine project aiming for 800ps
                            Audi B5 RS4 645ps 911nm

                            Comment

                            • Doug_RS2
                              S2Forum Possessed
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 3847
                              • Home: Scotland Current: England

                              #44
                              I think you will struggle to get a 4" deep behind an RS2 bumper - you might have to angle it so the bottom sits further back.

                              Thinking out load - the 3B will sit 10mm further back than an ABY - get it mounted high, touching the top of the bumper and it might fit.
                              S2,RS2,S4 WB,RS4,S4 B8,RS6 C5,RS6 C6,R8

                              Comment

                              • audiman
                                S2Forum Freak
                                • Jul 2003
                                • 4827
                                • Country: United Kingdom

                                #45
                                Yeah agree, the crank pulley is shallower on the 3B
                                sigpic
                                Tom C - www.rcmr.co.uk
                                Audi UR Quattro
                                Audi 100 C3 2.0 5 cyl 115ps
                                Audi S2 - 07k engine project aiming for 800ps
                                Audi B5 RS4 645ps 911nm

                                Comment

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