issues getting fueling proper.

[vwnut8392]

i seem to be having issues with getting my fueling right. im using 630cc injectors with no latency table data to revert to so i just left that alone instead of guessing what it should be. i have a 3BAR regulator in my car instead of the stock 4BAR. the only tables and constants i have been working with aside from the injector constant is the VE addend, VE multiplier, and VE table. so far i have drastically changed the VE addend by lowering it to 328 and the multiplier to 396. this is a far jump from either the stock BIN or the big turbo BIN and i dont think its right at all. over all im maxed out the top end of the VE table at 255 and still lean and im at 0 on the low end and still too rich at idle. by comparing the 2 BIN's provided by PRJ i figured the changed to the 2 constants shouldnt be this severe. im only running at 22psi right now and i will be raising the car back to its 28psi that i was running when the car was on VEMS. originally this lack of fueling or ability to tune the fueling better is why i switched to VEMS but over all i would rather keep the motronic because it just runs the car so much better. no hardware has changed on the engine from the VEMS other than i took the 1.8T IAT sensor off and put the stock one back on for the motronic.

so do i need to enlarge the VE table more? it doesnt just seem right because what i have is even bigger than the big turbo file technically and that file has way larger injectors and was demanding much more fuel by the looks of it. did i go the wrong way on the VE addend and the VE multiplier? should i add to the VE addend and reduce the VE multiplier? totally lost here so any help is great.

[Acki]

Fuel pressure stable?
Duty Cycle is ok?

You understand what add and mul means?

[vwnut8392]

Fuel pressure stable?
Duty Cycle is ok?

You understand what add and mul means?

yes, i assume everything is fine. i plug the VEMS back in and the car runs fine. only problem i ever had on the VEMS is the car never wanted to start right. yes i can perform basic math.
i have walbro 255 in tank pump, the stock pump died last year so i upgraded.

[Acki]

So possible you still don't know the basics how to tune a car correct?!

[vwnut8392]

i wasnt looking for smart *** answers, i was looking for help. if you have no help to offer simply stop replying. got it acki? your the problem with the audi tuning community, your a know it all and look down on lesser knowing people. if you really cared about any of this project you would help people when they asked for it instead of just giving meaningless answers. so what if i cant get it right, thats why im asking for help from the others who know more to get it right.

[vwnut8392]

What would make fueling calibration a bit simpler in my opinion is if there was like a table that was an % adder to the VE table. a table thats like 10x10 or 12x12 that its axis's are RPM vs Load or boost. this way instead of playing with scalars to try and fine tune fuel you could simply add X% of fuel to your base VE at the RPM/boost or load you want it to be added. like if cell value is maxed at 255 on main VE table you can lower that cell value down and use the secondary table to add back into that point. if the cell is 255 you take it back to 200 than use the secondary table to add 25% it will give you 250 in but more room in reality getting you close to being back at the maxed out main value but you now have room to add to the main table again. being at 0% in the secondary table would mean no addition to the main table.

Like VEMS has a RPM over MAP adder table that adds to the master VE table. Even though there is tons of resolution in the main VE table in VEMS i have used this table to fine tune adding just a hair more fuel in certain spots. even in a few cases i have set the RPM/MAP correction table to a higher value as a base so if fuel trimming needed fine tuned i could just lower that table a little.

I was testing values the mapping the fueling and VE folders to see how they reacted and i either get too rich at idle and overly under boost. i setup the the fueling at idle as per instructions in the wiki and im severely lean under boost with good part throttle fueling and idle fueling. is there a table like the one i dream of above that is not in the XDF or im just not seeing it because it has some wacky over thought name? is it possible to use the "load gradient multiplier for wall film" table to add? also there is the "Wall film enrichment (RPM x LOAD)" table, i think im going to try this table next to add fueling. at higher RPM and higher load. also can i rescale the RPM axis on the "Wall film enrichment (RPM x LOAD)" so that i can see if it makes any major changes at idle?

for anyone who wants to criticize me go ahead, there is no rule book to tuning anything. im open to new ways to achieve optimal AFR because obviously the methods im using dont work. why drive people away from a project like this? the more heads that understand it the better it can be. so if you dont have any input on the problem or the questions i have than simply dont reply. its not hard to not be an A-hole.

[kymi]

Sorry for this slight off-topic answer.

I think vwnut8392 you should take a look in the mirror. You're blaming prj's modifications when you can't even setup vems right. You're demanding others to tune your car (no one else here have). You're demanding new features to prjmod from others - while prj has only promised to publish his own documentation. You're demanding nonsense things like the relative boost. Countless of times you have been instructed that if you want to contribute in prjmod, use github. Countless of times you have been instructed to check out basic characteristics of 8051 chip, instruction set and the M2.3.2 schematics. The basics are not even close to the rocket science.

And when you get fed up with us here, you go to other forums presenting the gathered info from here as your own. Blaming that YOUR information was not valued "on some other forum".

You would be doing far better with M2.3.2 if you had used your time wisely. But you chose to whine around forums instead of learning this ecu. You have started the M2.3.2 modification thread almost 5 years ago and you still demand us to spoon-feed you. Come on. I started my journey quite exactly 4 years ago with no knowledge of disassembly, programming, 8051, etc and after half a year later started using E85, bigger injectors and own tune. Nowadays the car has prj-ish logging, E85-coldstart tweaks, etc all done by myself. And I accept the fact that it wouldn't have been possible without these great fellows around here, prj, Acki, etc. But I have never forced anyone to give me information or called them a-holes and I hope I never will.


And to answer your question. Yes, you can scale axis of a map or change its size. It has been stated in M2.3.2 thread here before by prj IIRC. But I'm not sure are you helping yourself with the wall film enrichment map...

[vwnut8392]

i found my error. i was trying to setup the ECU fuel mapping with the lambda control off. i calibrated the base injector settings with lambda control off and never turned it back on. after i turned it back on my rich condition at idle went away and i gained the full resolution of the VE table. i always thought it supposed to be fully setup with lambda control off. after i reread the wiki i seen that PRJ had disabled long term fuel trims than it made sense that i needed to have lambda control back on for the rest of the tuning adventure.

im not looking for hand outs as you can tell above. all someone had to ask me was if i had lambda control on or not obviously. i said A-hole because i asked what i was doing wrong and got a smart A comment, smart A comments get A-hole replies. i never posted my BIN asking for it to be fixed or tuned by anyone, thats asking for handouts. all i wanted was some guidance. in my experience with bosch ECU's like digifant 1 you tune it from the beginning to the end with lambda control off because you will never ever get fueling right. well this is the exact opposite of that obviously and something im not used to. so over all i i have decent fueling with lambda control on at idle and now im getting 10.00AFR's under boost. now i can trim back my VE table and see where it goes along with getting used to adjusting the VE output added and VE multiplier scalar's.

[prj]

You are supposed to set it with lambda control off.
VE map is used for pressure to load conversion, not to tune fuel. You are tuning the ECU completely wrong.

By your description your injector constant and injector latency is set completely wrong. If you fix them magically the VE table will start to make sense.

Also...
USE PARAGRAPHS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. I get a headache every time I read your badly spaced stuff, and that is probably not in your interest

[vwnut8392]

You are supposed to set it with lambda control off.
VE map is used for pressure to load conversion, not to tune fuel. You are tuning the ECU completely wrong.

By your description your injector constant and injector latency is set completely wrong. If you fix them magically the VE table will start to make sense.

Also...
USE PARAGRAPHS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. I get a headache every time I read your badly spaced stuff, and that is probably not in your interest

weil i dont have a latency table for these injectors so thats a shot in the dark. really cant screw up the injector constant because you made it easy to do. i picked 3BAR regulator because thats whats in my car and set it to 630cc because those are what size injectors i have. i did recently discover my wastegate diaphragm was ripped. i repaired that solving a vacuum leak and wonky boost control.

Basically here's how i did it in the beginning. i disabled lambda control. set injector constant to 630cc with the 3bar scalar. went to latency table and adjusted the value at 14v till my AFR was matching my requested AFR at idle. still with lambda control off i did a few runs and could not get fuel below 13.0AFR in boost with the VE table maxed at 255. remember lambda control is still off. so i tried adjusting the VE table output addend by moving it down and the VW multiplier up a little bit. mind you i started with the stock BIN file you provided. AFR at idle went to 10.8AFR and i was at 0 in the VE table so no room left to get it back in check. i left it that way and drove it, fueling on top end at 22psi got way more rich as i was getting 10.6 to 10.9 AFR but at the same time i was near 255 on the VE table so i started subtracting from the VE table to bring AFR's back around 11.4 to 11.7. than i decided to turn lambda control back on and see what happened. my idle fueling was obviously being controlled by closed loop at that point and it came back to idle in the 14.7AFR area along with having the 11.4-11.7 AFR's i wanted in boost with a little bit of head room on the top of the VE table if i needed it when i decided to run more boost.

Now the one thing i did notice is that my requested AFR at idle is way off at idle. it seems to be requesting 18.0AFR but im getting around 14.7AFR. i guess this is my first indicator that something is wrong.

[kymi]

If you're dealing with unknown Deka injectors, then just forget the whole idea of getting fueling right without proper professional equipment (at least with this ecu). Your best bet is to go with EV14 based injectors with known TVUB.

[Acki]

You would leave the latency as it is and only adjust the lambda trim table.

[vwnut8392]

If you're dealing with unknown Deka injectors, then just forget the whole idea of getting fueling right without proper professional equipment (at least with this ecu). Your best bet is to go with EV14 based injectors with known TVUB.

i agree, these injector where a waste of money so i ordered new ones last night. i got 2000cc injector for my 80 quattro and i'll just put the FID 1200cc injectors that are in my 80 now into my S6. problem solved. Here's what i bought.

[prj]

Measure fuel pressure, by your description you are dropping fuel pressure on boost. Hardware problem.