Questions regarding logging

**tekstil** · 3 May 2025, 20:02

Answer to first question - no.
Answer to second question - since you won't be able to log factory unmodified ECU, those values for MAP sensor in Winlog will be irrelevant.

Honestly there is no need to test anything beforehand, just buy cheap blue VAG KKL cable + 2x2 adapter and follow m232 wiki and it will work just fine.
Just out of curiosity, who is going to tune or supply your speed density tune?

**ottawa coupe** · 4 May 2025, 10:56

Thanks for the info!

things would have to get a heck of a lot worse before i get into details. The tuner is working with me to sort things and there have been more than enough success stories with them.

One last thing though. My modified ecu still uses the factory map sensor. Your answer implies there is a difference then?

And the reason for the question is that so far, NOTHING has worked as it should have outta the box....i am 3 years into plug n play upgrades....i think the radio swap was about the only thing that worked first try lol

**tekstil** · 5 May 2025, 15:21

So if I understand correctly, you are trying to install a 420HP capable turbo onto your car and use speed density converted ECU to control it? And you still have stock MAP sensor inside ECU after doing "all" modifications needed? No wonder "NOTHING has worked as it should have outta the box" because you are simply failing to follow clear and easy to understand instructions provided by m232 wiki. And I don't mean it in a rude or offensive way. Read the "Requirements and modifications for running prjmod" section and then read again.

I am assuming you are actually from Canada and the reason I asked for your tuner is because I can imagine the 20vT cars being rare over there and I don't think there are any tuners who can map this old Motronic for you in a reliable fashion. If your tuner doesn't have dual emulator setup for ECU, you are not going to get it mapped properly.
Your best bet would be to install full standalone ECU, something that supports 5 cylinders and is widely known and available. Afterwards you can get the car tuned in any decent dyno workshop. Again, I don't mean it in a rude or offensive way.

**ottawa coupe** · 5 May 2025, 17:02

There's a lot of history to my efforts that have not been documented here or anywhere first of all.

the ecu modification has been purchased from a reputable tuner. As i purchased it understanding how it was advertised to work, i did not feel the need to learn the details of motronic tuning. So my apologies if my simple questions offend you.

I have had a vems on it in the past and while it was a successful tune, it bricked with no warning and i had little faith in its robustness. I am currently having it repaired and upgraded in case the motronic plan fails.

I am simply trying to get a log out of motronic so the vendor of the tune can sort things. I am in a bind and looking for info to sort it out. Again, sorry if my questions upset you.

**tekstil** · 5 May 2025, 17:42

Taking the effort and looking at your other threads, this is the picture what I put together as of what you are doing/trying to achieve:

1. You did ECU hardware modifications yourself. (still missing MAP sensor replacement, not sure about other stuff)
2. You purchased speed density ECU software from a reputable tuner. (not sure what kind of injectors or what kind of setup is this for, is it even for prjmod?)
3. You installed fuel/ign and boost chips with the said software in your ECU.
4. You got the car running but it's rich and now you are trying to get datalog out of your ECU to send it to your tuner, so he can make adjustments to get it running right.
5. After your tuner makes adjustments and it runs fairly OK, you are going to dyno tune it.
6. Your end goal is to have the car running TTE420 turbo together with Siemens Deka??? 630cc injectors, using stock ECU with speed density mod.

Is this info correct? It's hard to gather this information from various threads, problem should be described in a simple way in one thread.
Answer it in a logical way, maybe I can point you in the right direction then.

**ottawa coupe** · 5 May 2025, 18:05

Yes, that is an accurate picture.

However wrt the map sensor, it was not stated that the tune i purchased REQUIRES that upgraded sensor. Perhaps this is the gap. I do not know if the tuner's file require this sensor as i don't know if they are followibg prj's work to the letter.

I will have to contact the tuner and see if this sensor descrepency is the root cause of my running issue. Thinking about it, it would make sense. The voltage output of the oe (250kpa?) Map sensor could be 2v whereas the 400kpa sensor output could be what 1.5v at the same pressure?

So with the oe sensor, the program thinks the pressure is much higher thus more fuel....

This could be it.

**tekstil** · 5 May 2025, 18:37

In order to get it running right, BOTH of you need to follow m232 wiki, meaning that you absolutely have to do all 3 ECU modifications (MPXH6400A MAP sensor, resistor removal, wire soldered from one board to another) and your tuner must use basefiles provided by m232 wiki. You can not mix and match stuff here. After this, Winlog datalogging starts to make sense and show logical numbers to you and you don't need to worry about those MAP values in Winlog config, because everything is correct already.

Siemens Deka's are not good choice. In fact Dmitri himself said not to use these, because IIRC their minimum pulsewidth was too high, meaning the car won't idle properly. I personally have no experience with them but this issue is reported on countless threads. Bosch EV14 injectors in same or similar cc/min are far better choice and should be sufficient for you running that TTE420 on pump gas.

**ottawa coupe** · 5 May 2025, 18:46

That makes sense. I was under the impression the tune had been tweaked to account for the sensor. But it would seem this is not a correct assumption.

As for the injectors, they worked fine on vems and i told the tuner they were installed. However, now i am concerned...

Edit: in my defense of earlier comments, understand that i am coming at this from a consumer side, not a guy developing this stuff.

I bought a product from a reputable place, taking what was written at face value. Only after running into issues did i get pointed to the wiki.

If i have spent what i have spent on tools to diag and parts to tighten up vacuum so far only because it was not known to me that a $30 map sensor was required.....

**jonn48** · 6 May 2025, 15:49

Originally posted by ottawa coupe

That makes sense. I was under the impression the tune had been tweaked to account for the sensor. But it would seem this is not a correct assumption.

As for the injectors, they worked fine on vems and i told the tuner they were installed. However, now i am concerned...

Edit: in my defense of earlier comments, understand that i am coming at this from a consumer side, not a guy developing this stuff.

I bought a product from a reputable place, taking what was written at face value. Only after running into issues did i get pointed to the wiki.

If i have spent what i have spent on tools to diag and parts to tighten up vacuum so far only because it was not known to me that a $30 map sensor was required.....

Siemens deka 630 does not work well with pulse width less than 1.4ms, but in this case the mixture is too rich at idle even with 3bar fuel pressure regulator

**tekstil** · 6 May 2025, 17:58

Sort out the MAP sensor question first with the tuner. There might be a chance that he accounted for your stock MAP sensor (which of course seems illogical knowing you will be installing bigger turbo anyway) and something else is not right. Like jonn48 said it could be your Deka's playing up or for example injector deadtimes are not quite right.

**ottawa coupe** · 6 May 2025, 20:55

Confirmed. Map sensor required.

Pretty sure that's my problem lol

Have suggested the vendor revise their website to reflect the requirement of the 400kpa sensor for those people like me who are starting there vs the m232 wiki....

we'll see how the 630s work with it. Not having researched, it would seem to me that the issue presented would show in a less than stellar idle but would clear up with increased rpm/load?

**jonn48** · 6 May 2025, 21:20

Originally posted by ottawa coupe

Confirmed. Map sensor required.

Pretty sure that's my problem lol

Have suggested the vendor revise their website to reflect the requirement of the 400kpa sensor for those people like me who are starting there vs the m232 wiki....

we'll see how the 630s work with it. Not having researched, it would seem to me that the issue presented would show in a less than stellar idle but would clear up with increased rpm/load?

If you leave the closed loop in operation and set the minimum pulse width to 1.4 ms, then an error will occur on the enrichment of the mixture. If you reduce the minimum pulse width, then the Siemens will begin to work unstably

**booested4door** · 15 May 2025, 17:04

this is James.... Looks like we both need to have a talk with dude about the 630"s.

**ottawa coupe** · 15 May 2025, 23:34

So, shockingly when you put all of the req'd parts on, it works better lol. Map sensor installed and voila, the car is driveable again.

However, it is not closed loop. 12s and 13s for afr at hot idle and lambda stays at 1.000 in vcds. Indicators of open loop.

This SHOULD go into closed loop right? Is it an option to disable it?

edit: ahhhhh, may be looking in the wrong place in vcds and the wiki states that long term trim is disabled.

The main takeaway is that it's working. A little rich for my taste and use but i at least have something to work from now!

Thanks for opening my eyes here!

edit 2: nope, no o2 activity....

Questions regarding logging

Questions regarding logging

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