Commercial Car PC prototype

[Evilgoat76]

Well I posted about this when I joined so I thought its time I got some pics info etc up. This is the prototype system so please dont mention things like the case holes being a bit crooked etc

First pic is the touchscreen and USB port up front. As mentione dthere is a bracket that clips under the top of the air vents in the dash and then into the demister. Its all padded and doesnt move an inch. The Camera is sat behind the monitor. Usb port took two attempt to be happy with it and normally contains a memory stick with whatever tune is currently stuck in my head right now. It has been used to watch a few episodes of flash forward during those borimg moments waiting for people.

The second and third are the PC itself nestled into the spare wheel under the boot floor.

Fourth is the GPS ant on the roof. I want to get a shark fin at some point with GPS, GPRS, Wifi, and FM buyilt in, would be tidier.

[driftin jo]

its going to cook itself if you put the floor back over it

[S2central.net]

If this is for maps, music, movies, Internet and such why not just use an iPhone with a bigger screen - otherwise known as an ipad (with a car mount) ?

My bet is the ipad will be hacked for all sorts of things - much like the mighty iphone I suppose.

[Evilgoat76]

its going to cook itself if you put the floor back over it

Its been under there for well over 18 months now. That fan on the case is speed controlled and the whole thing maintains about 35 degrees regardless of how hot it is outside. In the winter in the - temps it was sat at about 25 degrees. I'll grab the graphs from the sensors at some point. Below 10 the fans are stopped totally until the case temp hits 18 so the hard disk doesnt get too much thermal shock.

Its also a single core Atom so it doesnt generate that much heat.

[hibby]

What do you mean by commercial prototype? are you planning to put these into production?

I dont like the screen, I dont see what that would offer over any other DIY options already available. The puter case is ok but again what does that offer over any of the existing things available?

Sorry if im sounding critical. But if this is a commercial venture then surely some criticism is worthwhile.

I tried to make a screen mount before but fecked it up.

[Evilgoat76]

Missed S2centrals reply

Its got maps, music, video, acts as a handsfree kit, camera recording, tinternet all the usual suspects.

On top it is also talking to the ECU (well when I get round to puttting the OBDII connector in it will, dont like having a USB cable hanging out the bonnet) GPS on OS maps, waypoint logging/tracker functionality, Tied in through Unilink to the head unit, runs web front end to my back office system for use out on the road, WIfI survay software and has a metric shedload of other software on it.

The biggest + is at the end of the day its a PC, not a locked down proprietory platform. This means if there isnt software that I want, I can write it, as in the cas of the com-port splitter it runs and the software for managing the SCA bus (internal sensors, fan, tie in to the cars controls etc)

There are easier ways to get less

[Evilgoat76]

What do you mean by commercial prototype? are you planning to put these into production?

I dont like the screen, I dont see what that would offer over any other DIY options already available. The puter case is ok but again what does that offer over any of the existing things available?

Sorry if im sounding critical. But if this is a commercial venture then surely some criticism is worthwhile.

I tried to make a screen mount before but fecked it up.

Any suggestions welcome. I'll be honest with you and this isnt 100% aimed at hobbyists. Theres a lot of this system and yes, you can build a cheaper system yourself however the eventual targets for these are commercial users and ICE systems installers who dont really want to waste time building their own.

The mount is a case of the quickest, best looking way to mount it in sight without making any mods to the car. The only mod to the car in all this besides the power feed from the battery is the switch blank.

As for the case, its not a standard MATX case, theres a lot in there you cont buy at this moment in time, SCA bus bridge as mentioned talks to temp sensors in the case, and in theroy anywhere in the car. Its also capable of talking to the Autocheck display and mirror switches (they have to have a simple mod) to allow a menu type system to be setup. Theres a Unilink bus bridge that makes it apear as a CD changer to any Sony CD changer so at a basic level you dont need the tft. It also means in theory the auto-check becomes available for other things too (track display, time, OBDII info etc)

[S2 Ant]

I used to run my InCar PC from behind the dashboard. If you take off the dash trim on the left side. I drilled some more holes through it and then mounted the PC to the back of the inside of the dashboard and above the glovebox - might sound a bit cowboy - it was cabled tied there, was firmly in place and never had an issue with it.

Also meant that all the cables didnt need to be too long to hold it in place which was good - all i needed to do was run long cables from front to back to use an amp to drive all speakers in the car and the PC ran in 5.1 mode

[Evilgoat76]

I'm way too full of spitfire to reply, will do it in the morning

[MGaz]

Interesting..

I was acctually thinking about setting up a PC in my car as well.

I wasn't just going to use it for mp3 etc.. I had bigger plans.

I wanted to investigate the possibility of having the PC read some sort of speed sensor, rev sensor, and other engine sensors etc, to display a virtual instrument display in replace of the analog Dash.

The ultimate idea being to replicate the red/orange digital dash from an RR quattro, but using small LCD monitors instead. That way it LOOKS like the real thing, but theoretically works better. As the original item seems to miss digits as you accelerate, because it can't keep up/work fast enough.

[Zoig]

What is needed to display info on to the Autocheck screen? Is there a program for PC to connect with the Autochek or how have you solved it?

[Evilgoat76]

Interesting..

I was acctually thinking about setting up a PC in my car as well.

I wasn't just going to use it for mp3 etc.. I had bigger plans.

I wanted to investigate the possibility of having the PC read some sort of speed sensor, rev sensor, and other engine sensors etc, to display a virtual instrument display in replace of the analog Dash.

The ultimate idea being to replicate the red/orange digital dash from an RR quattro, but using small LCD monitors instead. That way it LOOKS like the real thing, but theoretically works better. As the original item seems to miss digits as you accelerate, because it can't keep up/work fast enough.

Not THAT hard to do but if you are going to replace the dash I'd go for a hardware solution over software.Windows just isnt up to doing thisand do you really want a ticket because your dashboard crashed. This particular machine has died on a few ocasions, mainly due to windows doing something stoopid such as loosing the touch screen. DOS or enbedded Linux may be a way forward though. Maybe something like QNX.

Speed is available fairly easilly from the speed sensor iteself, SOG (Speed over Ground) Is dead easy to read from a GPS and tcho should be easy to pick up. AFAIK these values are also already available through the engine and ABS ECUs via OBDIIalong with temps and various pressures. Centrafuse (the software it normally runs) does indeed already have this built in.

Speed/RPM in hardware is pretty stright forward, a simple PIC will do it without too much worry. Simply count pulses and every now and then, look to see how many you have. A table lookup will convert that to your desired unit. I am actually looking at doing this for a RR and will be getting stuck in over the next few weeks if you want info.

PC in the boot route was chosen as that box isnt small or light, plus it nees some protection, the spare wheel carrier seems to do the job and most cars have it (theres 4 of these systems in the wild) The killer is the amount of wiring comming back up front. On that systemalone you have VGA, USB, Unilink, Audio, Remote/Monitor power, Mic Return and TRnet cables. On the other 3 systems theres power to think of too. The plan is to makea USB Hub board to take the Bluetooth module thats already up there, USB Audio, 3 usb ports for touch screen etc, Unilink bridge, TRnet bridge, OBDII bridge and control signals. Thus meaning it'll only need VGA and USB up to the front.

VFDs/TFTs can be driven easilly enough over USB if you need to, there are USB VGA cards about. I would have to say I'd be inclinde to get the original dash and rebuild it though. More authentic look

[MGaz]

Not THAT hard to do but if you are going to replace the dash I'd go for a hardware solution over software.Windows just isnt up to doing thisand do you really want a ticket because your dashboard crashed.

I thought something similar when I head that the Royal Navys new Type-45 Air Defense Destroyers are running microsoft windows for there operating system.
funny at first, but quite scary when you think of how vulnerable windows is to virus & hackers, To say nothing of the system crashing during a fire fight!

Speed is available fairly easilly from the speed sensor iteself, SOG (Speed over Ground) Is dead easy to read from a GPS and tcho should be easy to pick up. AFAIK these values are also already available through the engine and ABS ECUs via OBDIIalong with temps and various pressures. Centrafuse (the software it normally runs) does indeed already have this built in.

I'm not sure if any of that applies to a type 85 cq, its hasn't even got an ECU

It has got an ECU for the ABS system tho. Is that any use?

Speed/RPM in hardware is pretty stright forward, a simple PIC will do it without too much worry. Simply count pulses and every now and then, look to see how many you have. A table lookup will convert that to your desired unit. I am actually looking at doing this for a RR and will be getting stuck in over the next few weeks if you want info.

What's a PIC ? and yes I am interested.

VFDs/TFTs can be driven easilly enough over USB if you need to, there are USB VGA cards about. I would have to say I'd be inclinde to get the original dash and rebuild it though. More authentic look

I was thinking of buying a dead Orange/red digi dash, and see if I could mount some modern-day computer displays behind it.

Have you seen the Dash in the new Lexus supercar? It uses computer screens, and they can re-arrange the image.information displayed on them, depending on sport modes etc.

That was the kind of look & versatility I was after. :mischeif: But maybe I'm asking too much?

[Evilgoat76]

I thought something similar when I head that the Royal Navys new Type-45 Air Defense Destroyers are running microsoft windows for there operating system.
funny at first, but quite scary when you think of how vulnerable windows is to virus & hackers, To say nothing of the system crashing during a fire fight!

I had a hire car in Canada on my last trip out. It was equipped with 'Misrosoft Sync' in car entertainment. I kid you not, at one point I had to pull over, turn the ignition off, and restart because it got stuck in a loop...'Please say command....Invalid command, please sy command...Invalid command, please......'

I'm not sure if any of that applies to a type 85 cq, its hasn't even got an ECU
It has got an ECU for the ABS system tho. Is that any use?

Not really worth messing with for just that as speed can be had in other easier ways. If you use GPS SOG (speed over ground) you need to bear in mind that its bang on, no nice 10% error to save your a??? from any Gatsos you miss.

What's a PIC ? and yes I am interested.

Basically its a single chip computer. not very fast but very cheap (starting around the £1 mark for some). There are plenty of tools available to program them and write software for them and I'm almost 100% certain someone will have done this before. Driving an old LCD/LED dash shouldnt be hard but driving TFT panels will require the kind of processor power they dont have. Simplest approach is 1 pic per function which keeps it all independant and simple. Based on that a single £2 pic could drive the speedo. You'll need some electronics and software skills to do it or find someone willing to do it for you and find them a dash to play with.

Have you seen the Dash in the new Lexus supercar? It uses computer screens, and they can re-arrange the image.information displayed on them, depending on sport modes etc.

That was the kind of look & versatility I was after. :mischeif: But maybe I'm asking too much?

There are ways to do it. What you are looking at is realtime applications. This means you need either dedicated hardare as above or to look at whats called an RTOS. Windows reacts to events when it gets round to it. This means that if it gets busy doing something an event may get missed. If we are counting speedo pulses this may men it misses a few pulses the first time round, telling you you are doing about 10 when you are doing 70, then the next reading may clock you somewhere around mach 2 as it catches up. RTOSs or Realtime Operating Systems react to events as they happen and this is why for things like this you find QNX, Linux Variants, VXworks or custom OSs in things that are time/mission critical.

There are chips powerful enough to run TFTs that are cheap, for example the ARM chip thats probobly in your mobile. But you are looking at a LOT of work and investment. For us to develop something like that I have to say you'd be looking in the low £1000s in development alone. For yourself, put aside a few £100 for a development kit, but that does open you up to a whole load more options as to what you can do, some of these chips have 3D hardware on board .

Zoig - I have a bridge that pretends to be a radio gamma and requires some 'fettling' on our S2s, nothing major though. The 'talking' is handled by a PIC as all that is available without the PC running. I will, if I get a moment, see if I can write new software to take serial input from a pc. Its not pretty though, text only.

[Zoig]

Zoig - I have a bridge that pretends to be a radio gamma and requires some 'fettling' on our S2s, nothing major though. The 'talking' is handled by a PIC as all that is available without the PC running. I will, if I get a moment, see if I can write new software to take serial input from a pc. Its not pretty though, text only.

Intput from Sensors and translated by PIC onto Autochek seems nearly perfect in my mind for now.
Ii there a possibility to use this interface as a shiftlight, gear indicator, G-meter, EGT/IAT etc?

Could you share more details on the bridge? Like schematics on how to build it or where to buy it.

PC input would be next step if I finally get so far, that I could figure out what and how exactly to install into the car