pictures of 2Bennett front adjustable upper strut mounts

[90quattrocoupe]

In another thread people asked for pictures of my 2b front adjustable front mounts. I am putting them here to make a search easier later on. They are solid stainless with a sperical bushing for adjusting the camber and caster. You loosen the mount bolts and turn the nut around a 360 arch to adjust the camber and caster. But when you adjust one you adjust the other. Of course, if you are looking for more camber, you can adjust the ball joint, and put in HR camber bolts also.

Greg W.

[S2central.net]

Gotta say I've always like the look of these. How do they work in practice for ease of adjustment and more importantly - staying in adjustment ?

Camber is easier to adjust as you say.

Have you tried experimenting with caster yet - I've never had a car where I could adjust this to educate myself on the merits and pitfalls of messing with caster.


Paul

[auditude]

Gotta say I've always like the look of these. How do they work in practice for ease of adjustment and more importantly - staying in adjustment ?

Camber is easier to adjust as you say.

Have you tried experimenting with caster yet - I've never had a car where I could adjust this to educate myself on the merits and pitfalls of messing with caster.


Paul

I've got the 2 Bennett camber/caster plates on my 200q20v. They are a different type, with the two somewhat independently adjustable. Anyway, I was told at the alignment shop (I didn't like those guys tho', and I won't be back I think), that basically more caster is "better". It makes the car more stable at speed, because the wheels want to stay going straight. I have either heard or concluded that my Coupe quattro feels like a larger car than it is because they have lots of caster built into the suspension.

Those ones in the pic above look like you have to adjust both camber and caster at the same time, and that you may not be able to put the strut rod anywhere in the circular area, but rather only around the circumference? Does that inside plate only rotate around, or could you, for example, put the strut rod directly in the middle of the circular space?

[edit= Hey Greg, I used those S6 strut assembly pieces I got from you to put those 2B plates in!]

[90quattrocoupe]

Gotta say I've always like the look of these. How do they work in practice for ease of adjustment and more importantly - staying in adjustment ?

Have you tried experimenting with caster yet - I've never had a car where I could adjust this to educate myself on the merits and pitfalls of messing with caster. They haven't complained to much about the use of the plates.

Paul

Those ones in the pic above look like you have to adjust both camber and caster at the same time, and that you may not be able to put the strut rod anywhere in the circular area, but rather only around the circumference? Does that inside plate only rotate around, or could you, for example, put the strut rod directly in the middle of the circular space?

Paul,
I have had no movement in these plates, so the alignment stays put. The mount is a clamping mount, with the bolts holding the two halfs together. I usually have the car aligned every two years, and so far no problems. They strut mounts are basically a middle ground item, because you don't have to cut up the top strut area to install larger plates, so the caster and camber adjustments are limited.

I have not played with the alignment, I only have a shop do it. The increase in caster comes from having the top of the strut toward the rear of the mount. With the increase in caster, the car wants to stay centered better.


Auditute,
The camber plates for the 200 are nice because you can do the camber and caster seperately. But the 200 comes with the larger opening, makes it nicer.

You are correct, the strut bolt only rotates in a 360 degree arc. So when you are adjusting caster, you are also adjusting camber. Takes a little time to get right, but my aligment shop does ok. I don't remember the settings right now, I am almost up to my two years. the strut rod will not go tothe center.

Greg W.

[A1QSHIP]

Thanks for the photos . So for me it is settled, QR sports for the rear struts and 2-Bennett for the front struts.
The benefit of having more front caster are threefold.
1) You will benefit from straight-ahead stability with increased caster. Much like the wheels on a grocery/shopping cart want to go in the same direction, the front tires will tend to want to travel in a foward direction. Note; This only applies to new carts:mischeif:
2) You will increase the camber gain when the steering wheel is moved off center as you enter a turn. If you look at the tires/tyres as they are turned while the vehicle is stationary, in an unmodified Audi vehicle it will appear that the top of the tire is out farther than the bottom of the tire. This is actually the camber changing from a negative value to a positive value. Good for a stock vehicle but bad for a racecar or high-performance vehicles. Some of the late '90s S-class Mercedes-Benz ran with as much as 10 degrees caster with about 1 degree static negative camber.Looking at those cars, the tire has alot of negative camber gain when turning.
3) You can use less static camber settings when using increased caster values. This will give you more traction on corner-out because more of the tires tread surface is in contact with the road surface.
I have effectivey doubled the stock 2.0 -2.25 positive caster values by using offset drilled front subframe bushings. Currently I have about 4.0 to 4.25 positive caster adjusted into the front of my Coupe.

[rs2coupe]

Are those the billzcat1 subframe bushings modified?

thanks

[A1QSHIP]

No, they,re something that I whittled out myself. They move the subframe foward about 12.5mm. Using the stock 205/60/15 tires, I have had no interference issues with the wheelhouse liners nor fouling of the front axles. Initially, with the alloy subframe bushings in the standard posistion I swapped the front lower ball joint right/left but the tires were contacting the liners and the axles were hitting the unibody structure. But I did have 6 degrees of positive caster. With the 2Bennett front upper mounts maybe I can get back to 6 deg. positive caster. That would be the same measurement value for the Porsche 993 turbo alignment specs (thereabouts).
I really liked the turn-in with that much caster. The car rotated very well with that setting and about -1.25 camber.

[S2central.net]

Hmmmmmm - interesting approach there from the man in Kentucky.

I have a full set of alloy subframe mounts to 'play' with. This might be a stretch too far on a little used road car though. What is your opinion on that. Eventually I'll get the car up to spec where I feel confident enough to venture onto the track occasionally but most times the car enjoys a weekend run over bumpy A-class and B-class tarmac.

Any adverse tyre wear with such aggressive caster ?

The additional -ve camber is totally something I agree with - based on past experience setting up FWD cars.

SO what about caster recommendations for REAR struts on our beloved cars ?

Paul

[A1QSHIP]

The only adverse tire wear that I have experienced with this setup is with camber values greater than -1.5 degrees. My car is a daily driver and has been for the 10 years so any mods have to be done quickly and must survive the street. I have had these bushings on the car going on two years now with no adverse affects. Since the stock sized tires and wheels are on the vehicle I cannot say if a larger sized tire/wheel combo will work without interference. I certainly hope so as the next mod will be going to the rs2 hubs with Porsche brakes. (I know this is expensive, time consuming, ect...)

MY initial exposure to modifying suspensions was while racing Honda CRXs in endurance racing. I learned alot during that time and have applied that experience to many other vehicles.

The only vehicle that I am aware of that has a specification and an adjustment for rear caster is the first generation Mercedes-Benz ML series and some Porsches. It can contribute to pulling to one side if not set correctly. As how to measure it on the Audi has not been on my list of "to do" projects, I cannot say what improvements can be expected. That said, as long as there are no unexplainable straight line stability issues I would not worry about it.

[Gringo]

In another thread people asked for pictures of my 2b front adjustable front mounts. I am putting them here to make a search easier later on. They are solid stainless with a sperical bushing for adjusting the camber and caster. You loosen the mount bolts and turn the nut around a 360 arch to adjust the camber and caster. But when you adjust one you adjust the other. Of course, if you are looking for more camber, you can adjust the ball joint, and put in HR camber bolts also.

Greg W.

Thank you Greg Unfortunately your pics revealed that the 2B`s won`t be an option for my car. The mount seems to bolt the pivot point a bit high and the top of the strut would pierce my hood. Ì`ve already got 2 domes welded into the hood to clear the mountingpoints as it is today, using the 2B`s would create more problems in this area unfortunately.