Tramlining

[dan_b]

Easy to fit Dan?
Bought mine a day before you but they only arrived today hey hoo, thats ebay for you.

Oh, I don't get any tramlining at all. QRS top mounts, koni shocks, powerflex wishbone bushes and new track rods ends after crash.
Getting these metal drop links as I simply don't like the idea of plastic ones.

Yes they were easy to fit, took about 30mins with the car on a ramp. It might be worth replacing the antiroll bar bushes too if they're worn?

I wish I didn't have this tramlining: Sara especially finds it quite alarming.

What are the proper alignment specs for tracking, camber etc?

[Jas11n]

Yes they were easy to fit, took about 30mins with the car on a ramp. It might be worth replacing the antiroll bar bushes too if they're worn?

I wish I didn't have this tramlining: Sara especially finds it quite alarming.

What are the proper alignment specs for tracking, camber etc?

Thanks Dan.
My front antiroll bar bushes were new 4 months ago, should really have done the droplinks then.

Check both MikeS2's site and S2 central as they both have the spec I think. Not that I'd admit to understanding any of it though

[martinjs]

Are your tyre tread depths roughly the same?, i had loads of trouble with mine, the problem went away when i fitted new ones.

[Ross]

Funny, my car was handling razor sharp on the old tyres (that said, they were practically slicks ) and after fitting the new 'uns the car was all over the road! A 4-wheel alignment has given the stability and response back, but it still tramlines like a biatch. Has gotten better as the tyres have been broken in though it seems... at first, taking a cambered right hander onthe way to work meant holding the wheel straight!

[Ski]

mine does this a LOT MORE now i got bigger wheels.

I replaced top mounts, bushes, subframe mounts, drop links etc.. and it didnt help. But i dont mind, more feedback the better within reason.

[dan_b]

Ok got the car back up on the ramp this morning (had a new front tyre fitted at the same time) and asked them to check the front for anything unusual...

The amount of play in the front suspension was, eer, scary. The bushes are fine, the top mounts are fine, the ARB and droplinks are ok, bottom balljoints are fine, but there was several inches of play in the suspension without the steering wheel moving 1 inch. Both mechanics who were there both said "front wishbones" (well they actually said "lower arms").

Is this right? They're solid bits of metal, surely?

[~Delta]

Tramlining is caused by a number of things:

1) Wider tyres
2) Incorrect wheel offset
3) Negative camber
4) Worn front dampers
5) Worn front wishbone bushes
6) Worn front top mounts

A lowered type 89 / B4 will tramline more than a stock ride hight one. Lowering the car alters the camber front and rear, as the cars have only one set of wishbones per corner (remember lowered E30 BMW's at the rear, the wheels look like A frames?) All suspension set ups which rely solely on a lower wishbone will have more negative camber once lowered, you'll have to compensate by adjusting the lower ball joints relative to the wishbones, as there is enough slot to do this. If there isn't enough slot, then the car is way too low (look at the drive shaft angles, you'll soon find out).

Suspension set ups which utilise double wishbones (upper and lower, as in A4, A6 etc won't tramline once lowered, as the wheel remains parallel to the car at all times, as there is a longer wishbone at the top. FWD type 85 / 89's are also less likely to tramline once lowered, as the rear wheels also remain parallel to the car, due to the fixed beam axle.

lowered S2's (Coupes) need more positive camber. If the adjustment is at the limit and the camber is still negative, and all suspension components listed above are in good condition, only options are to :

1) Fit narrower tyres
2) Increase the camber adjustment slots
3) RAISE THE CAR!!

In this respect, Avants have a much more superior rear suspension set up, the struts are located by arms upper and lower, so even a slammed Avant will have little or no tramlining effect as compared with a Coupe.

[Jas11n]

Tramlining is caused by a number of things:

1) Wider tyres
2) Incorrect wheel offset
3) Negative camber
4) Worn front dampers
5) Worn front wishbone bushes
6) Worn front top mounts

A lowered type 89 / B4 will tramline more than a stock ride hight one. Lowering the car alters the camber front and rear, as the cars have only one set of wishbones per corner (remember lowered E30 BMW's at the rear, the wheels look like A frames?) All suspension set ups which rely solely on a lower wishbone will have more negative camber once lowered, you'll have to compensate by adjusting the lower ball joints relative to the wishbones, as there is enough slot to do this. If there isn't enough slot, then the car is way too low (look at the drive shaft angles, you'll soon find out).

Suspension set ups which utilise double wishbones (upper and lower, as in A4, A6 etc won't tramline once lowered, as the wheel remains parallel to the car at all times, as there is a longer wishbone at the top. FWD type 85 / 89's are also less likely to tramline once lowered, as the rear wheels also remain parallel to the car, due to the fixed beam axle.

lowered S2's (Coupes) need more positive camber. If the adjustment is at the limit and the camber is still negative, and all suspension components listed above are in good condition, only options are to :

1) Fit narrower tyres
2) Increase the camber adjustment slots
3) RAISE THE CAR!!

In this respect, Avants have a much more superior rear suspension set up, the struts are located by arms upper and lower, so even a slammed Avant will have little or tramlining effect as compared with a Coupe.

Hmmm, good post, never looked at it like that before.

[dan_b]

OK - can someone recommend/ suggest geometry settings for a 3B Coupe that has H&R lowering springs and Koni dampers?

Does anyone also have any thoughts about whether it's possible that it is actually my wishbones themselves that are the cause of the excessive play (ie. could they be bent?), or is it more likely still to be bushes?

I clearly have to get this sorted, need to restore the car's sure-footedness.

[maRS2]

I could move a lot the wheel with brand new OEM bushes so I went to powerflex and now it's much stiffer
No more tramlining at all with QRsport top mount powerflex bushes on my RS2
even the wife told that the car is much easier to drive straight.
And I have bad set up for tramelining 245/35/18 with 8"1/2 rim with 5mm less offset
( so wheel more out)
Also have -1.35° camber and 1.5mm toe in in front
But as I said no more tramelining used to have a lot

[maRS2]

Forgot that I have also Aloy sub frame bushes.
I did first the the sub frame,then the QRsport top mount and finaly the powerflex bushes at each step I got a less tramelining.

[dan_b]

Thanks for the setup specs, do you have lowered suspension too?

[dan_b]

Also, did ride quality and noise/ vibration suffer when using the powerflex bushes?

[maRS2]

The inside noise (NIV) incrise is very marginal and only under 40 Mph.
I'm anyway almost never driving under this kind of speed with the RS2.

No vibration at all.

My car is on OE spring but 12 years old so may be 10 or 15 mm lower than original

[dan_b]

So I go for a 2nd opinion with a mechanic I am using more often and am getting to trust: he checked out the wishbones and the bushes and they're fine. He did however spot straight away significant play in the steering rack, more specifically in the union (bracket?) between the rack and the steering arms, which he's looking at for me today as I can't do it myself at the moment. I'm hoping it's not the rack itself as I'm already on my 3rd rack since owning this car which is expensive enough! It would be nice to actually narrow down and fix the cause of this...