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  • rs2 upgrades

    My front left shock has given up and I'm looking at upgrading all round while I'm replacing it for better handling on spirited driving.
    I'd like better suspension and to combat the body roll that the car is prone to when cornering fast.
    Ive read a bit about the bilstein and h&r spring setup which sounds good but the roads where I live are pretty bad so don't want to go
    much lower even though I don't mind the look.
    Looking for suggestions as to what can be done.

  • #2
    I know you've posted elsewhere on the forum about an upgrade on all of the various fronts for the RS2.

    But in relation to the suspension query in this post - IMHO given the bad roads and wanting to have a car that is nice / easy to daily, and is now a valuable car, i.e. collectable and worth money, any changes should be reversible and should not be too dramatic.

    Realistically how often does a car get driven at 10/10 on the road where it needs a track spec level of suspension. Easy to get carried away on this forum.

    So I'd say standard springs, with Bilstein shocks, new oem bushes rather than poly, 17"rims, 8 x 17 with 225/45/17 or 8.5 x 17 with 235/45/17 tyres.

    Neuspeed rear anti roll bar all day long.

    Enjoy.





    Last edited by macspring; 7th November 2017, 10:24.

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    • #3
      Tnx

      Poslano sa mog SM-G532F koristeći Tapatalk

      1-2-4-5-3

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      • #4
        Our old barges are really very crude by modern performance standards so you do need to accept the limitations of the chassis.
        I agree, avoid H&Rs IMHO - the spring rates are barely different to stock and they will lower the car, drop the roll centre and actually introduce more body roll.
        Bilstein dampers are a good option, KW V1s are very good for the money, the spring rates are quite a lot stiffer than stock but the damping is well matched and they don't feel that stiff on the road. You can of course set your ride height to suit and do some small improvements to the corner weights. I prefer poly bushes to OEM, in my opinion they do make the car feel a lot more direct and responsive but its all subjective. As above a stiffer rear ARB will be the best bang-for-buck upgrade and getting a decent geometry setup really makes a difference too. There are many other small improvements you can make to sharpen them up and improve the driving experience
        Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
        Indigo ABY coupé
        Imola B6 S4 Avant

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        • #5
          Agree with Error, the KW1 are a good option when your budget allows which it may do in this case.

          Bushes are subjective - One has to decide on the balance of daily comfort versus Track like performance.

          Also, agree re the positive benefits of a good geometry set up.

          Error, I'd be keen to hear what are the other little touches that you'd do to improve the driving experience ?

          Always keen to make mine sweeter.

          Thanks.






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          • #6
            gotta say I like poly and ally bushes. on some cars they make them feel a bit harsh. think on the coupe with the sloppy shell that issue is mitigated.

            spring wise I still run the koni springs that were on my coupe when I got it 10 yrs ago. think they stopped making them then. I run them on the salon too. ride height is only slightly lower and only slightly stiffer.

            I run whiteline rear bar. I think it helps. again a coupe part on the saloon.

            promounts up front make a hell of a difference.

            tyre size id say 225 is optimum. I had 235 on the back at first. for me it felt worse.

            worth bearing in mind its 3 car types here. coupe, estate and saloon. coupe and my salon are identical underneath but saloon feels quite different

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            • #7
              Is it not that the Avant and the Saloon are the same underneath, with the Coupe having a different rear suspension set up ?





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              • #8
                mines a b3. its an s2 coupe underneath. b4 is an avant. the entire running gear and suspension, etc is from my coupe. the interior is s2 coupe leather. thensubfram at the rear on mine is saloon but its the same as s2. just like brand new. event the exhaust is exactly the same. just had to extend the hanging brackets.

                saloon is more rigid and lighter than coupe imo making a better car.

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                • #9
                  Thanks guys. I would like things to be reversible if possible. That being said I have no intention of ever selling the car. To own one has been a dream of mine since I was about 14 in 1998 haha.
                  Im still in disbelief that I was actually able to find a way to import one to Australia without owning it in the UK for a year. I got one around 4 years ago before the prices started really climbing which
                  was lucky! It handles well and I am happy with the car but would like improve on what i can realistically. I like doing a track day once a month or so with some mates.
                  Chipped might be enough for me maybe ill try it and see. Mine is stock except for a supersprint exhaust which was on it when I bought it. I'll have to check if it's cat back or from the turbo.
                  Im surprised how quick they are already. I kept with an s15 that has 400whp from 3500 rpm in 3rd we stopped at the top of 4th so it wasn't long but he was surprised haha
                  rs2 should have about 260-70 whp am I right? and the s15 is 300kg+ lighter. They just have trouble putting it to the road I think.
                  Im going to go poly bush through out.
                  Upgrade anti roll bar.
                  I'll research the kw vs bilstein and stock springs a bit more. Budget allowing if want to do track days once a month and drive on my bad roads is it worth going
                  to kw2's so I can adjust the damping a bit for each?
                  I always use 225/45 tyres have tried good year eagle f1's and got 8000km out of the fronts! I then tried michelin pilot sort 3's which didn't hold as well but lasted a lot longer.
                  I am now on pilot sport 4's and am very happy so far.
                  I have found a thread on here concerning geometry and am going to get my tyre guy to try this set up next.
                  Error I would also like to hear any of the other tweaks which can be made.
                  Thanks all for the input! it's much appreciated

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                  • #10
                    Another option is stock springs with koni shocks, which is what I’m running on mine now.

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                    • #11
                      I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this topic with some more questions on the subject. I've searched, and it's really hard to find a proven fast road setup.

                      What I am looking for is a set up which will reduce body roll, improve turn in and provide a more neutral corning feel with a slight tendency to oversteer while remaining predictable and controllable, and finally, the important one is to retain a degree of comfort.

                      I've seen a number of people say the suspension design is dated and you have to accept that there are limitations. The front is certainly nothing fancy, and it's not really worth looking to change anything which would require body modifications, but I'm sure there's plenty that can be done. The rear appears to be a good design.

                      I'm considering the following and would be interested in anyone's experiences and opinions;

                      - Fully adjustable coilovers, a 30mm drop and stiffer springs should reduce body roll and retain a decent amount of ride comfort.
                      - Stiffer RARB, Neuspeed seems a proven option and with stiffer springs it would seem sensible to not go too extreme, but has anyone tried the 034 one? I'd be very interested to know. Either should reduce the tendency to understeer and of course, reduce roll
                      - Poly bushes, having fitted these to a few cars, I'm really keen to stick with the standard bushes, but I'd be interested to hear opinions as it seems a very common upgrade. To my mind, the amount of play given by standard bushes is minimal on a road setup anyway, what you gain in feedback, you more than pay for in loss of comfort.
                      - Offset top mounts, as standard there is very little caster, you can add a fair bit with these, but is it worthwhile? It must be beneficial for front end grip while cornering due to camber gain, what is the affect on turn in feel with these?

                      I have a Subaru Legacy GTB which is only slightly newer than RS2, it's also the same style of car and a similar weight. The handling is simply superb, there is nothing I'd want to change about it, the suspension is stiff, but completely tolerable, there's very little roll and the steering feel and feedback is fantastic. It can get a little uncomfortable on poor road surfaces and still understeers if pushed too hard into a corner, but these are minor criticisms, I'd be happy to achieve a similar feel on an RS2.

                      My car is a saloon on full RS2 running gear, but hopefully it's not too different that what works on an Avant would work on my saloon.
                      92 Audi 80 Quattro => RS2 Saloon!
                      98 TVR Cerbera 4.5
                      63 Austin Mini Super Deluxe (turbocharged)
                      69 Austin Mini Cooper
                      71 MGB GT
                      75 Daimler Vanden Plas 4.2L
                      04 Kawasaki GPX250
                      96 Subaru Legacy GT-B

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                      • #12
                        Bilstien B6 with stock springs is nice

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 80Quattro View Post
                          I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this topic with some more questions on the subject. I've searched, and it's really hard to find a proven fast road setup.

                          What I am looking for is a set up which will reduce body roll, improve turn in and provide a more neutral corning feel with a slight tendency to oversteer while remaining predictable and controllable, and finally, the important one is to retain a degree of comfort.

                          I've seen a number of people say the suspension design is dated and you have to accept that there are limitations. The front is certainly nothing fancy, and it's not really worth looking to change anything which would require body modifications, but I'm sure there's plenty that can be done. The rear appears to be a good design.

                          Depends if you are talking B3 (coupe) or B4 (saloon / avant). B4 Quattro has the vastly superior double wishbone rear suspension. B3 Quattro has stone-age mcstrut.

                          In terms of what you are look8ng for above, I have spent a number of years trying to achieve the same and I am pretty happy with my car as I stands.

                          Stiffen the chassis as much as you can. I have a front lower chassis brace and a rear strut brace. I have also stitch welded the chassis. Using solid subframe bushes effectively turns the sub frames into giant chassis braces, sacrificing some comfort. Poly bushes in my opinion are a worthwhile compromise on comfort, I’d say you get 10% more NVH but significantly better feel & response. I tried solid offset top mounts but in my opinion they aren’t worth the increased harness in the ride. There is a lot you can do but a lot of it depends on how far you are prepared to go and how much you can do your self

                          My set-up, for reference
                          Yes it is very neutral, goes sideways in the wet and still understeers if you are silly.

                          Front strut brace, lower chassis brace, rear strut brace
                          Poly subframe & wishbone bushes
                          Custom Delrin rear tie rod bushes
                          Custom spherical bearing in front tie rods
                          KW V1, 60n front springs, 70n rear springs - around 15mm lower than stock (going much lower generates a larger roll couple)
                          Corner weights optimised
                          RS2 FARB
                          Whiteline RARB on middle setting
                          Custom poly front top mounts
                          Steering rack modified with stiffer torsion bar
                          Custom hybrid Porsche / BMW () PAS pump with modified flow control valve
                          Custom alloy steering column bush
                          B7 RS4 gearbox with 40:60 static bias
                          V8 torsen rear diff
                          24mm wider rear track width
                          Max available -camber, around -2deg,

                          Need to tackle the lack of castor and apocalyptic bump steer. Currently working on completely custom front suspension setup to relocate all of the pick-up points. That will be my ‘final solution’.

                          Hope that helps in some way
                          Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                          Indigo ABY coupé
                          Imola B6 S4 Avant

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for sharing.





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                            • #15
                              That's very useful, thanks. My car is a B4 saloon so has the double wishbone rear.

                              I'm very keen to try offset top mounts as it just seems odd to me that these cars have so little caster, a few degrees more should help resolve some of the issues I have with the factory set up. The problem is if they add NVH like you say, it is at odds with the comfort I'm looking to achieve. I don't want to run excessive camber, 2 degrees seems a lot for a road car. In principle, the camber gain from adding caster should reduce the need for that.

                              Solid subframe bushes are not something I'd considered, but I had not thought of the added torsional rigidity they provide.

                              I fully poly bushed a car before and it ruined the ride for a road car, it might have been ok on a track, but not the A47. There are some great handling cars which use metal/rubber bushes, but I won't rule them out.

                              I know there are always compromises, I'll probably have to experiment a bit and accept that it probably won't be perfect at the first attempt, but I think of got a good idea of where to start.
                              92 Audi 80 Quattro => RS2 Saloon!
                              98 TVR Cerbera 4.5
                              63 Austin Mini Super Deluxe (turbocharged)
                              69 Austin Mini Cooper
                              71 MGB GT
                              75 Daimler Vanden Plas 4.2L
                              04 Kawasaki GPX250
                              96 Subaru Legacy GT-B

                              Comment

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