changes from 80 series to s2

[alistairolsen]

were there any major mechanical differences between the audi 80 and the s2? For instance, I assume springs and dampers were different, but did the s2 run the same track and geometry?

the brakes were obviously different, but were the mountings on the suspension struts the same?

I assume the shells were similar in that headlights, bumpers etc are all interchangeable? same with interior trim?

were the s2 gearboxes normal 80 quattro units, or were they fitted with a different casing or ratios?

cheers

[Acidburn]

Have a look at azman's posts as he's just converted a 20v coupe quattro to 3b spec so it can be done.

Headlights - b3 shape are different to b4 and ellipsoid
bumper can be swapped no problem (s2 on b3 looks cool as well)
Bonnet - s2 b4 bonnet needs 3x panels behind it.
Wings - don't need changing but b3 is not as flared out as b4

Gearboxes - s2 has longer gearing to cope with power etc, 20v etc boxes top out quickly.

3b shell has strut brace mountings which can be cut out and welded on 80 shells.

hth's

[alistairolsen]

cheers for that, so the track, uprights, brake mounts, diffs etc were all the same?

Im not worried too much about making it look like an s2 for now, and if the box is a little shorter it doesnt matter so long as its just as strong. But I need to know there arent any glaring defficiencies to prevent me making it perform in every respect as well as the s2.

[S2central.net]

What you need to know is that the S2 Saloon and S2 Avant are based on the B4 variant of the Audi 80 which was introduced in Autumn 1992. The main difference in terms of running gear between the B4 quattro and earlier (B3) 80 models is the rear suspension layout. The B4 rear has a nifty double wishbone layout which is superior to the 'front to back' topology used on the B3 (and Coupes) with Mcpherson struts all round.

As to B4-S2 suspension specifics - it has unique dampers and springs compared to other B4 quattro models. The springs were reused on the RS2 but it had even stiffer dampers (and ARBs of course).

Paul

[DarrenM]

Not wishing to hijack thread but on a similar note - is there any difference between my 94 2.8 Quattro Coupe springs and S2 springs??

The reason i ask, I've got chance of a nice set of dished 18"s to replace my 17" S8's (4 stud NOT S2 5stud) and I want the car sitting 30-40mm lower. Im still looking for a mint S2 so dont want to be spending to much money on the 2.8, just want it sitting bit more squat for these wheels..

Can't seem to find much on lowering springs for the 2.8 but I heard a set of S2 lowering springs would fit. Any ideas if they would?? Or if not, where could I get some for the 2.8??

[alistairolsen]

it has unique dampers and springs compared to other B4 quattro models.

What was unique, just the damping rates and spring rates and heights, or were the actual casings different?

(and ARBs of course).

Any details on the different dimensions available? Id imagine RS2 ARBs are pretty expensive and hard to find, do whiteline or anyone do a big bar kit?

cheers for all your help so far guys!

[mcandmar]

As mentioned B3 vs B4 age of cars where the difference lies.

Starting with CQ20v (B3) vs S2 (B4), the S2 has firmer shock/spring rates. Front struts/shocks are a wider dia on S2's. Different ratio steering rack / gearbox and the hubs were five stud. Apart from that it’s the same car. Cosmetically the S2 had the later front lights/bonnet, white dials, and a few other small bits. Basically all parts are bolt on and interchangeable between the cars.

V6 models were also the later B4 chassis like the S2, it also replaced the CQ20v. So in effect you get the later B4 front lights/bonnet, and the V6 engine instead of the 5cyl. The rest is identical.

Saloon and Avant models you have a lot more changes between B3 and B4, most importantly the different rear suspension. Plus a bunch of exterior and interior changes.

And yes V6 is softer sprung than S2, infact i think its softer than the CQ20v which is a barge in standard spec.

If you go back further below the CQ20v/9020v into normal 10v's and non quattro models there is a lot of difference, you’re looking at different struts, hubs, wheel bearings, roll bars, brakes etc. Different car to be honest.

Roll bars, from memory 26mm on CQ20v and S2, 28mm on RS2. I think models below were smaller again. RS2 isn’t that expensive, and there is a whiteline rear for the coupe, can’t remember sizes, stock is 14mm or 15mm something like that. Can’t remember who makes rears for the avant/sedan, they are available.

If you can be more specific on what you have and what you want to know i might be able to go into more details.

Cheers, Mark.

[Corey]

What was unique, just the damping rates and spring rates and heights, or were the actual casings different?


Any details on the different dimensions available? Id imagine RS2 ARBs are pretty expensive and hard to find, do whiteline or anyone do a big bar kit?

cheers for all your help so far guys!

For the B4 you would use the Neuspeed RARB (same as the Avant) but for the front you would use the stock RS2 item.
Whiteline do not do anything for the B4 yet

[alistairolsen]

Im checking the viability of a potential project.

Id like to take a normal audi 80 quattro avant (B4 model) And fit the V8 from an A8. It therefore doesnt bother me if I end up with a 5 speed box instead of six as the longer ratios wont be as relevant.

I do however need to know that I can fit the same suspension and brake upgrades as an RS2, and that I will have the same basic suspension layout and transmission.

Im not oo bothered about making it look like an S2 or RS2 for now, but knowing I can for the future is always nice.

So, to summarise, is the transmission, apart from the box the same? Are the wishbones, driveshafts etc the same? Are the brake mountings the same? Are the wheel bearin diameters the same?

Somone mentioned 5 stud hubs, where these S2 only, or fitted to all quattros?

Just really looking for anything that will mean the finished car cant handle and or brake as well as an s2?

many thanks for all your help

[S2central.net]

Well AFAIK - the V8 engine mounts align pretty well with 5-cyl mounts in the B4 Avant - but guessing you are starting with a V6 so you'll need to move/fabricate those.

S2 is unique in B4 with the 5x112 hubs - and the driveshafts are beefier too compared to smaller engined 80 models.

Suspension layout on your B4 quattro Avant will be identical to S2 though - use S2/RS2 springs and RS2 dampers for off-the shelf suspension. Also use RS2 FARB and RARB - or go stiffer at the rear as Corey says with NUespeed monster bar.

Massive bolt on brakes are available front & rear (not cheap) but very effective - cheaper if you go with 5x112 route.

I think the V8 will mate up with an 01E box better- six speeder is best here and a good match to torquey characteristic of the V8.

Paul

[S2central.net]

Oh and I forgot to add - the RS2 has funky Porsche dimensioned 5x100 hubs and some additional weirdness at the rear to accomodate a drum handbrake that accompanies the traditional disc and caliper rear brake. That is unique to RS2 and not really worth copying IMO - sizeable upgrades for the S2 Avant brakes are straightforward that retain the normal handbrake function.

Paul

[DarrenM]

Can't seem to find much on lowering springs for the 2.8 but I heard a set of S2 lowering springs would fit. Any ideas if they would?? Or if not, where could I get some for the 2.8??

Anybody?? Im keen to get them on this w/end if I can get hold of some...

[OOOO]

Oh and I forgot to add - the RS2 has funky Porsche dimensioned 5x100 hubs and some additional weirdness at the rear to accomodate a drum handbrake that accompanies the traditional disc and caliper rear brake.

Paul

Isnt that 5x130 ?

[S2central.net]

Sorry - yes 5x130 is correct of course - well spotted !

[alistairolsen]

cheers for that, are the five stud hubs readily available? upgrading would make sense to go for the a8 disks and 996 calipers, unless there is a similar upgrade for the 4 stud cars?

Suspension sounds like a goer, Ill prolly go for all aftermarket stuff anyways.

Are the driveshafts significantly smaller? fail commonly? Are the cvs the same?

many thanks