Fast road / track springs & top mounts

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  • Rusty
    Super Moderator
    • Jun 2004
    • 18953
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Fast road / track springs & top mounts

    I've been thinking for a while about getting the suspension on the S2 a little more track orientated, this would consist of a set of springs, more than likely H&Rs with some decent top mounts. The rest of the suspension is new enough to be tight and will be left as such until replacement bushes are required. Only other thing I might change it the front wishbones to cast items. Has anyone seam welded the rears to stiffen them?

    The pics from Donington made me realise that standard road springs are all a bit squidgy and they do give a pretty awful ride quality with Konis and the 25mm RARB so H&Rs aren't going to be much worse... are they? Ideally I'm looking for 2 pairs of fronts to stop the back from looking too low as some have experienced with the H&R variable rate rears.

    Anyone bought H&Rs recently, if so where and how much? Are there any alternatives to speak of? I've not heard of any although H&R RS2 items were an option for a more track orientated S2, not for the road though! I'd love a coilover setup but the money just ain't there for it, no matter how much better it'd be.

    Other question is what's the thoughts on top mounts nowadays? Are alloy ones a bit severe for road use? I've heard mixed reports on them in terms of ride quality and also life span, I don't want to be replacing them after a year or I'll be fuming. Pro mounts seem excessively expensive but could be worth the money, mount savers are a cheaper alternative but are also costly, are there any other suppliers than quattronics for the latter 2 items?

    I'm going to keep the 17s on there as they offer good ride quality and road holding and a wide range of tyres, shame R888s have an aquaplaining problem otherwise they'd be going on, not much more expensive than standard tyres. A nice set of track day alloys would be a good plan but again, money is an issue unless I can find some cheap 17s.

    No need for more power, I'll wait for the turbo to give up before looking at anything other than a bottom end rebuild.
    Cheers'en, AndyC
    1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss
  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #2
    Andy...

    If I was seriously contemplating some track-day action I would definitely invest in a set of the lightest alloys you can afford and a set of road-legal trackday tyres (unless you have a mate with a van or an avant that can carry them to and from the events).

    The difference on racing spec tyres is amazing, but you make a good point about the springs and top mounts.

    I wouldn't discount the adjustable coilover stuff from KW - its expensive - but your car is the target application for what they offer.

    I was gobsmacked by the improvement from POwerflex bushes - dunno if you have done those yet - or the uprated / alloy subframe mounts.

    I would also suggest that seam-welding the rear wishbones can't hurt one bit. Most race/rally spec machines get strengthened in the chassi department to make them more rigid - and a roll cage is a big help in that department but that is maybe a bit extreme

    PAul
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

    Comment

    • Rusty
      Super Moderator
      • Jun 2004
      • 18953
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      Only Powerflex bush on the car is the rear diff. The rest of the suspension was replaced before I got a taste for the track action and so it too new to replace and is tight enough for now. If I replace any parts from now on I'll look at the powerflex / alloy option but for now it's staying as is and it's still my only car which translate to 10 - 12k a year so it needs to be useable every day!

      With the rebuilt suspension the car feels tight on track and is good fun to drive with very controllable power-off oversteer and ever-so-slight power understeer making it controllable on the throttle as well as the steering wheel. Most passengers have commented how stable and controllable it feels.

      I'll have a look for KW stuff and see what I think but the price is just a bit too much at c£1k. Even if I sell the struts, Konis etc. that's still severe wedge....

      Variant 1 £809, variant 2 £999 here.

      Lightweight alloys are a nice idea but again money isn't going to allow this one. It's the Dezents for now, I feel a bit guilty as they're taking a bit of a battering and were immaculate when I first got them .

      I'm off work ill, bored and my brain's looking for ways to spend money I don't have. Great!
      Last edited by Rusty; 17 January 2008, 16:16.
      Cheers'en, AndyC
      1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

      Comment

      • DarrenM
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Aug 2007
        • 1227
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        I bought some H&R cup springs for my ABY Coupe about 3 months ago, proved a pain getting hold of them and expensive too. (they're cheaper for the Avant). i paid £56.00 per spring so £224.00 for the set.

        Fitted KW V3's to my M5, best suspension i've ever had, seperate adjustment for bump & rebound (others are adjustable but as a preset pairing of b & r).

        Like u say, depends on the budget and you wont go far wrong with the H&R's

        Comment

        • anton
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Jan 2005
          • 802
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          kw

          i would deffinately not rule out the KW varient 2s, i have these on my coupe quattro along with superflex bushes, just as good ride quality as koni shock and springs on standard bushes. however the performance is outstanding, i havnt found a car that can keep up with me arround corners yet, and i have gone back to 15" remoulds for financial reasons!!(mainly because i bought coilovers) but at £900 from awesome GTI i have to say it is the best performance per pound modification i have ever done to my car!

          Ant
          91' Coupe quattro 20v - project
          KW V2s and other goodies
          now gone
          03' BMW 330CI - Sold
          08' A5 Coupe 3.0l tdi quattro - Sold
          57' BMW 525d M Sport Touring

          Comment

          • s2driveruk
            Super Moderator
            • Jul 2003
            • 12696
            • Country: England

            #6
            watching closely on this

            My H&R's (with the variable rate rear springs) sit level front and rear....well minus a spring sag on one corner i have to resolve I looooove them on track, car feels fantastic on them mated to the bilsteins, though definately not good on B roads is my opinion, car gets all choppy on ruts.

            Personally it is so easy to change the top mounts that I would be tempted to stick with the oem ones and accept them as a track consumable, just invest in the right tools to change them, castle nut and deep ring spanner etc. £150 on those spangly top mounts could buy you a good few normal ones and i'd expect them to last you more than one session?

            Toyo R888's would be a good move I think, maybe some brake ducting to keep the mono's cool

            Outside of the suspension question, couple of other areas I was thinking about for mine...
            Lightwight alloy radiator to take some extra weight out the front end and maybe a kenlowe/pacet fan for something more modern to look after temperature management, definately something I am looking to do this year as the 3b fan is heavy, noisy and draws an alarming amount of current when kicking in etc
            sigpic

            1992 3b S2 Coupe

            Comment

            • TEKNOPUG
              S2Forum Enthusiast
              • Mar 2007
              • 125
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              For fast road use, I'd stick to stiffer springs with OE shocks and use the ARB's to dial out understeer.
              Keeping with the OE shocks deal with poorer road surfaces and the stiffened springs will help reduce body roll. Depends what sort of roads you drive on and how much track work you intend to do of course.
              1990 Peugeot 205 1.9 Turbo 192bhp - 190lbs/ft
              1996 Vauxhall Omega 3.0V6 Ex-Plod - cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, cop LSD. Cheap, tatty and comically sideways!

              Comment

              • Matt_D
                S2Forum Maniac
                • Dec 2004
                • 515
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                http://www.motorsportworld.co.uk sell the KW V1 for £722 and £900 for V2

                I'm thinking of doing my suspension although mine is a slippers wagon, a set of H&R springs and Koni shocks from motorsportworld are around £50 cheaper than the KW V1 price so the KW's don't seem overly expensive

                BTW motorsportworld sell H&R's for £174, £104 for front Konis and £127 for rear shocks (thats avant prices BTW) a couple of RS2 ARB's would finish that off real nice
                '95 ABY Avant - Sold
                '98 B5 S4 -MRC400+ = 464ps 741nm

                Comment

                • terrybullwon
                  S2Forum Zealot
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 8782
                  • Country: England

                  #9
                  My next extravagnce will be handerling, I think i am past the curent set up of:

                  All has covered 3k
                  H&R's
                  Koni
                  White line ARB
                  RS2 Front ARB
                  QRS alloy top mounts
                  OEM bushes
                  Conti sport contact's 2. 225 40 18

                  Its going to have to be:

                  Coil overs
                  toyo R888
                  Lighter wheels although my bbs are pretty light

                  I already have,

                  Alloy sub frame bushes
                  Motor sport mounts all round

                  This should be a bumpy ride
                  Chef

                  Comment

                  • Jamo
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 21750
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    034 do some good top mounts, i'm buying a set due to the lack of availability of the pro mounts and also the price is stonking.

                    Comment

                    • s2driveruk
                      Super Moderator
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 12696
                      • Country: England

                      #11
                      Originally posted by terrybullwon

                      This should be a bumpy ride

                      Ah just resort to rose jointing everything
                      sigpic

                      1992 3b S2 Coupe

                      Comment

                      • Rusty
                        Super Moderator
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 18953
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        James, go for the FARB on the rear, much more aggressive than the Whiteline option. there are 5 ARBs that fit and it's a cheaper option too.

                        I think that whilst I'd sell my right arm for coilvers, I'll then need it to fit the stuff (and for other things) so looks like I'll be following the hoards and going down the H&R route with fronts front and rear to give a more aggressive stance and predicatable handling as they'll be constant rate all round.

                        Good spot Jamo, I think 034 will be getting my money there, are you ordering some? PM me if you are :mischeif:
                        Cheers'en, AndyC
                        1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                        Comment

                        • s2driveruk
                          Super Moderator
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 12696
                          • Country: England

                          #13
                          those 034s do look a good proposition wonder if you could run oe blues at the rear and the track density on the fronts?
                          sigpic

                          1992 3b S2 Coupe

                          Comment

                          • Rusty
                            Super Moderator
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 18953
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            I thought about that but the blues are expensive and do the blues sit lower or am I speaking from my backside? Blues are £25 each from memory.

                            I think a bulk order on track density top mounts is in order. I'm going for them front and reat when I fit the H&Rs sometime near the summer.
                            Cheers'en, AndyC
                            1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                            Comment

                            • Rusty
                              Super Moderator
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 18953
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #15
                              Just to sum up my proposed setup:-
                              • 17s with Pirelli P-Zero Nero Assimetrico extra loads (stiffer sidewalls).
                              • H&R spring front and rear (either Fr x2 or Fr & Rr).
                              • Koni shocks (3 years old).
                              • 034 track density top mounts Fr & Rr
                              • 26mm front bar.
                              • 25mm rear bar.
                              • Replacement standard bushes throughout over the last 2 years.


                              Nothing particularly left-field there but plenty of tried and tested stuff so hopefully it'll meet expectations on a tight budget.

                              Decided to try the Pirellis after a reccomendation by a Dutchman with a very fast Alfa 75 (and a mate's currently trying them so I need to get feedback).
                              Cheers'en, AndyC
                              1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

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