Coupe H&R VA vs HA

[mcandmar]

I have just changed my coupe from four 29939VA springs to the proper VA/HA setup. thought i would post my findings for anyone who is curious. Uncompressed the HA springs are noticeably shorter, and i believe firmer too. I tried to take before/after pics to compare the ride height but they didn't come out very well. The HA's do sit a bit lower.

Both pics taken after the new front springs were fitted so they will settle a bit more, car also has a full tank of fuel and a full size spare.

[mcandmar]

First impressions are good, started off driving around the housing estate which means speed ramp after speed ramp. They may be firmer but they are more compliant if that makes any sense, much more comfortable over speed ramps and rough concrete roads.

On the twisty B roads things were noticeably different, under high cornering loads the rear of the car squats more than before and feels much more natural. Its also lost that pointy feeling under heavy breaking and turn in. High speed corners the car feels flatter and you get the impression the rear end is working more than before. It just feels more balanced overall. I like it

[s2driveruk]

glad to see that the original config is proving itself to be better than the fronts all round. What dampers are you running out of interest?

[mcandmar]

Konis but the fronts are very worn, on my todo list...

[Skull]

LOOOOOOLL!!!

VA is Vordere Akse, HA is Hintere Akse.

yes VA is front axle, HA is rear axle.

[Jamo]

LOOOOOOLL!!!

VA is Vordere Akse, HA is Hintere Akse.

yes VA is front axle, HA is rear axle.

Unless you know what your talking about please refrain from posting.

H&R sell the Coupe springs with VA all around as they say it greatly improves the handling however the rear end is not level with the front

[S2central.net]

For a while some H&R distributors were supplying 4 x VA (Front) springs for the S2 Coupe - they fit but questions were raised on suitability - rightly so it would seem by Marks report here. Has this been straightened out with H&R now ?

[Rusty]

See my post on Lloyd's thread. Using a simplified helical spring theory, the rear HnRs measure as softer than the fronts by about 10% as opposed to the OE springs that measure as stiffer at the rear by 5% approx. Without proper test data this is just a theory but some of the symptoms you describe would relate to softer rear springs. i.e. more squat, less pointy handling. As pointed out you need the correct springs for the car to sit right. Be interesting what handling reasons HnR site for the VA setup recommendation.

[S2central.net]

Thats odd - you sure ?

I thought a stiffer front would give more 'pointy' handling - and that a stiffer rear would counteract that - but that doesn't line up does it. I always thought the handling bias of the car went broadly speaking to the stiffer end... if you want oversteer - stiffen the rear and if you want understeer then stiffen the front.

The theory is probably sound that the VA springs should have reduced cars natural understeer tendency... but it must just all balance out more sweetly with the HA springs on the rear - as nature originally intended !

[s2driveruk]

its actually a great setup IMO....the handling is much firmer than oem but they is plenty of warning from the car and still a very nice ability to adjust/balance the car through corners. In terms of setup though, even with bilstein/H&R combo that I have, beefier ARBs would make a significant difference to the body roll, which is still quite significant and naturally increase the twitchiness/liveliness of the car (a la Rusty )

Never liked the stance of the fronts all round with the rear in the air personally, the coupe sits perfectly on the original combination as far as I'm concerned, though I do remember with stock et37 and 16's, the wheels look a bit lost in the sunken arches BTDT

[Rusty]

Thats odd - you sure ?

I thought a stiffer front would give more 'pointy' handling - and that a stiffer rear would counteract that - but that doesn't line up does it. I always thought the handling bias of the car went broadly speaking to the stiffer end... if you want oversteer - stiffen the rear and if you want understeer then stiffen the front.

The theory is probably sound that the VA springs should have reduced cars natural understeer tendency... but it must just all balance out more sweetly with the HA springs on the rear - as nature originally intended !

Stiffer front springs will induce understeer, as per your second statement, as ever there are limits on these things as you can't have 10lb springs or 2000lb springs and expect the car to ride or handle properly.

As to the measurements, there are a lot of assumptions made so the reality could be a little different although I'd be willing to put a pint on the rears being softer under operating conditions.

I also think that the coupes look better with level rideheight, one reason I would want coilovers if I stripped it properly, another being that I can play with spring rates and not have to rely on several kilos of ARB on the back. Something I've not tried but often considered is to put the coupe rear springs on the front, dropping the front by approx 10mm and countering it with a phooking big RARB. Stock rideheight does give a lot better geometry, if I went to coilovers I'd keep it as stock height as possible.

I am thinking about modifying an FARB to fit on the rear with the struts the normal way round (cut the arms, file a flat and drill some holes). The handling at the mo is lovely on the road, perhaps a tad excessive on the track with the chassis fully loaded, although understeer is something other people have, as David said .

With the HnRs measuring as they do, I'm not going to touch the setup for the track but might go for the 26mm FARB that I have sat in the cupboard on the back for road use, keep things sharp, cutting down the 25mm FARB will make it effectively stiffer although I'd then have to get either a Whiteline or 22mm FARB for track use, unless the sticky PZero Corsas do their job better than expected. Another thing I was thinking was to get an RS2 FARB up front but £££s = nope... all pipe dreams at the mo but then we all need to have dreams I guess...

[stiglet]

Sounds like the "front springs all round" recipe is a bodge way to get rid of understeer. I'm sure the springs are better off matched to the weight distribution of the car, unless you regularly put 200kg worth of luggage in the boot and carry four passengers ala avant suspension!

[Rusty]

I agree, especially if you remove a few kg from the boot, look at the R26.R. Can be easily addressed using some funky FARB options on the rear.

[mcandmar]

Good point on the weight, I've driven it plenty of times with a boot full of tool kits, trolley jacks and axle stands. It handled sublime, point it at a corner and let momentum do the rest

I wonder how these springs will cope with that much weight in the boot....

[Rusty]

The HnRs are variable rate as the coils are wound tighter at one end than the other so the close coils lock and cause it to get stiffer. IIRC, the HnRs do tend to sit quite low at the back, remember Bo's car was noticeably lower, perhaps because it was a 3B and so lighter up front.