Subframe bushes?

[AndyD]

I'm getting some tram lining and squirming under braking and I'm wondering if the front subframe bushes are shot? I am also getting noises (slight knocking, grumbling etc) during low speed steering but not sure if its connected or not.

It isn't wishbones, top mounts, track rod ends, ball joints, drop links or anti roll bar bushes as they are all new.

Am I going down the right track or am I way off?

This is on my 98 2.8 cabby by the way.

Thanks in advance
Andy

[TimE-J]

Could well be but have you had the alignment checked/adjusted after doing all the other suspension parts?

[K Simmonds]

Yep it could be sub-frame bushes, but they rarely fail and your cabby hasn't had that hard of life so I'd be surprised if it's them. What size wheels and tyre's are you running mate?

[AndyD]

Could well be but have you had the alignment checked/adjusted after doing all the other suspension parts?

Yes had it done straight after the rebuild and it's all adjusted within spec now according to the print out....

Thanks

[AndyD]

Yep it could be sub-frame bushes, but they rarely fail and your cabby hasn't had that hard of life so I'd be surprised if it's them. What size wheels and tyre's are you running mate?

Nothing fancy Kit just 17" Boleros with 225/45 Pirellis.

Do you know what the torque setting is for the subframe bolts so I can check?

[Error404]

Subframe bolts are a pathetic 35nm + 90deg but I always do mine up tighter to 80nm in a single stage as I find they can come loose otherwise.
The wishbone bolts are the same bolt, the setting for them is 70nm + 90deg. Go figure.

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

Our 2.8 final edition cabby has the low speed tramlining you describe and i can only put that down to the tyre size on the boleros plus it's a cabby with the extra slop dialed in being a cabriolet with scuttle flex. I could be wrong.

[AndyD]

Subframe bolts are a pathetic 35nm + 90deg but I always do mine up tighter to 80nm in a single stage as I find they can come loose otherwise.
The wishbone bolts are the same bolt, the setting for them is 70nm + 90deg. Go figure.

Thanks and I agree it makes no sense unless they are concerned about crushing the bush?

[AndyD]

Our 2.8 final edition cabby has the low speed tramlining you describe and i can only put that down to the tyre size on the boleros plus it's a cabby with the extra slop dialed in being a cabriolet with scuttle flex. I could be wrong.

Funny the more I think about my 2.6 cabby had the 15" 10 spokes and never felt like it was tram lining ...... Until I put some boleros on but I put that down to tired wishbone bushes...... Mmm

[Error404]

If you have increased the scrub radius with lower offset / wider contact patch it will create more tramlining effect, but with good condition suspension & well setup geometry it shouldn't be a major issue.

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

Funny the more I think about my 2.6 cabby had the 15" 10 spokes and never felt like it was tram lining ...... Until I put some boleros on but I put that down to tired wishbone bushes...... Mmm

Against all what can be described as current wisdom (desirability) the 2.8 final edition cabby being the ultimate cabby in most eyes and i agree engine wise plus all the extras but the best cabby i drove 2 years ago was a S reg 60,000 1.8 with the 6 spoke 15" wheels on them. The car was a revelation it never felt heavy.You just drove it and never thought of anything other than what an enjoyable vice free car to drive. It soaked up all the road imperfections still handled tight. It did the same job of isolating road imperfections as the A4 Mk1 but with a more composed ride.

I don't think b3,B4 80 cars like wide tyres for everyday cars as it's pushing the chassis design beyond it's natural design envelope.

[AndyD]

If you have increased the scrub radius with lower offset / wider contact patch it will create more tramlining effect, but with good condition suspension & well setup geometry it shouldn't be a major issue.

I am wondering if a little more toe in would reduce the tram lining? They guy who did the alignment us an Audi fan (was on Nogsport and ran a 10v CQ B3 so I might go and see if he can tweak a little.

[AndyD]

Against all what can be described as current wisdom (desirability) the 2.8 final edition cabby being the ultimate cabby in most eyes and i agree engine wise plus all the extras but the best cabby i drove 2 years ago was a S reg 60,000 1.8 with the 6 spoke 15" wheels on them. The car was a revelation it never felt heavy.You just drove it and never thought of anything other than what an enjoyable vice free car to drive. It soaked up all the road imperfections still handled tight. It did the same job of isolating road imperfections as the A4 Mk1 but with a more composed ride.

I don't think b3,B4 80 cars like wide tyres for everyday cars as it's pushing the chassis design beyond it's natural design envelope.

On the cab I have to agree, I have done the same rebuild to this 2.8 as I did with the 2.6 before and the driving experience was much better on the 2.6 so it must be down to the small wheel size and higher wall and contact patch size.

But it does look much better on the 17's

My 2.6 on 15's


And my 2.8 on 17's

[K Simmonds]

I don't think b3,B4 80 cars like wide tyres for everyday cars as it's pushing the chassis design beyond it's natural design envelope.

That is something I very much agree with!

Andy do you have a set of 15" wheels you can whack on as a control experiment, if they cure it then you've found your problem.

[Bowie69]

I've noticed the tramlining thingy as well, on Bolero's... another reason to go back to the beautiful original speedlines