Better trans for S2 3B?

[Floddy]

Ok, I have two bad 5spd ARV 01A boxes, bad synch, not a big problem, but I've heard that the other parts in them doesn't cope with high horsepower outputs...

I'm pretty desperate to find out what the h*** I should do to my transmission. Getting one of the 5spd ARV 01A's re-built seems like a half-bad idea. Wouldn't be that funny to spend 1-2k euros on a rebuild just to find out that it didn't work. That's 1-2k euros in the bin...

Any ideas on what to do? I've thought a bit about getting a 016 trans, but what parts will I need? I have an brand new sinter clutch for the 3B flywheel, I'd rather not throw that one in the trashcan... Read some stuff about it here, but I don't get any complete picture of how it's done. Flywheel? Clutch? Prop shaft? Rear diff? Driveshafts? Mounts? A HowTo would be nice...

Or if someone knows where to go to get an ARV box bulletproof...

[diesel des]

I will be useing a 3b flywheel on my aby and 016 box in my URQ, so that should work for you. You will need to fit a bearing to the crank for the 016 input shaft to sit in. Not sure of the audi part number now.

[AnLe]

I have send one 01a box to Fixit in Sweden, but newer got answer..


Cheapest way is to do 01e conversion.

[porkkis]

I will be useing a 3b flywheel on my aby and 016 box in my URQ, so that should work for you. You will need to fit a bearing to the crank for the 016 input shaft to sit in. Not sure of the audi part number now.

S2 and 200 3B flywheels are not the same so be careful what you state.
200 flywheel will work with 016 and S2 will not.

[Floddy]

As far sa i can see in "the bible", 200 20v and UrQ 20v has the same flywheel, but S2 3B has another one. Same thing on the clutch disc. Pressure plate is the same on all three, though?

Would be nice if someone BTDT... Starting to panic soon

[~Delta]

To convert your 3B S2 to type 85 / 44 016 transmission, you'll need:

1) 016 transmission from Coupe quattro or Audi 100 quattro (4.11:1)
2) Type 85q propshaft
3) Ur quattro (MB) flywheel
4) Type 85 Coupe q spigot bearing
5) Type 85 clutch slave cylinder
6) Ur quattro (MB) clutch assembly
7) Type 85 Coupe q selector linkage
8) Type 85 Coupe q transmission mounts
9) Ur quattro / 200 q drive flanges

You'll have to use your existing driveshafts, but you may have to check differences in length - either get yours lengthened or shortened AND balanced. You could use Ur quattro items (ABS cars) but it'll mean using the struts as well, and don't forget the ABS rings are different, very fine on the Urq, and quite co**** on the S2. The outer splines are also different, unless you can knock off the Urq outer CV joints and use S2 outers. I haven't tried, so not sure if the 2 parts are compatible.

The boxes I have mentioned are both non torsen, UK 016 torsen boxes were 3.89:1 from the Urq (MB) and 200q (1B). It is possible to use a torsen 016 from the Urq and 200q, but you'll either have to replace your rear diff with an Urq MB (not recommended) or replace the front diff with one from a type 85 Coupe q (a lot of work for very little gain).

The linkage is the hardest part of the conversion - you'll need to modify the transmission tunnel to fit the 016 linkage from a Coupe q or Ur q. It means welding in the type 85 part of the tunnel (top). It probably sounds worse than it really is, but beleive me, it's not too bad.

The centre bearing of the Urq (MB) is in the flywheel, it needs to be removed, and a type 85 Coupe q / Urq (WR) spigot bearing needs to be pressed into the rear of the 3B crank. 016 transmission with type 85 Coupe q mounts fit directly onto the ARV subframe, use a type 85 prop. Depending on how much movement you have in your mounts, it MAY be possible to use your existing prop.

You'll need to use an 016 clutch slave cylinder, and an Urq (MB) clutch. If you have an up rated 3B clutch, the pressure plate can be used. Coupe q drive flanges are smaller than S2 items, hence the need for Urq / 200q items.

Don't be put off by the work involved, it can be carried out in a weekend without busting a gut. The much stronger 016 unit is well proven. It was developed at a time Audi was very competitive in Motorsport (Group B), so they were over engineered as far as road use was concerned. They don't break easily, mine certainly didn't in my type 85 Coupe q, despite the fact it was running a heavily modified 3B motor and wasn't driven gently.

[caterpillar]

I love THIS forum everyone gives som tech help,when its needed

[4WheelDrifter]

Now that's what you call a BTDT.

[Floddy]

Wow! Thanks Delta!

I've tried to find out wich boxes that are 4.11:1, but I doesn't seem to have any luck there... Wich years/models were they used on? Gearbox ID#'s? And what's the disadvantages of using a 3.89:1 torsen box with the urq rear diff? The lower ratio wouldn't bother me that much.

Then i wonder what happens with the balancing if I bolt a MB flywheel to the car.

A guy that put a 3B in a urq 10v said that he used the complete unit from a 3B (flywheel, disc, pressure plate), but had to make the hole in the flywheel bigger to get the incoming axis through. He also had to get the disc center remodeled for "lowlift" or something. Seems like a bigger operation than getting a new flywheel and change my disc to a MB one, I just wanted to know if there are any thoughts on this? Also heard that the RR flywheel and clutch would work?

Then, the driveshafts. Shorten or lengthen? Seems like a pain in the #2? Is this something that wou HAVE to do, or is it just a "maybe"?

Drive flanges by the way, They come out by pulling them out, right? On my second ARV box it just pops out... Or, half of it pops out. The other half is pretty darn stuck

[~Delta]

Most common 4.11:1 016 transmission is from the type 85 Coupe q and 90 q from the same 85 family. The code for these trannys are "US". The disadvantages of using a torsen 3.89:1 016 tranny from the Ur q are slower acceleration - the ratios are higher, not lower. The very reason 10V Ur q's in stock form can be beaten on the quarter mile by well driven type 85 Coupe q's. If you still want to go the torsen 3.89:1 route, you'll need the transmission from an Ur q (MB). Code for this unit is "APX". Rear differential on your 3B will also need to be replaced with an MB item.

You can use an MB or RR flywheel, I choose to use MB items, as they are easier to come by. Whichever you decide to use, use the clutch friction disc of the MB, as the splines fit the 016 tranny shaft. You can use an MB or RR pressure plate depending on which flywheel you use. Both RR and MB flywheels have a bearing in the middle which needs to be removed as I stated in my previous post. I have never had to make the centre hole bigger!

Driveshafts, I can't remember if the 3B items are longer or shorter than Ur q items, they may well be the same. If they are shorter, you can use spacers on the drive flanges to inner CV joints as I have done on type 85 Coupe q's when converting to 6 speed CGR. Best spacer is an old S2 inner CV joint sliced up to the correct thickness. I had mine done at a local machining shop, they are hardened, and will NOT be cut with a hachsaw! Lengthen the inner CV joint bolts accordingly.

On your transmission (ARV) the drive flanges lever out, while on the 016 tranny, they are held in by a central 6mm allen bolt. The flanges of the ARV are not compatible with 016 trannys.

[porkkis]

If you still want to go the torsen 3.89:1 route, you'll need the transmission from an Ur q (MB). Code for this unit is "APX". Rear differential on your 3B will also need to be replaced with an MB item.

Or Coupe Quattro V6. They're also 3.89.

You can use an MB or RR flywheel, I choose to use MB items, as they are easier to come by. Whichever you decide to use, use the clutch friction disc of the MB, as the splines fit the 016 tranny shaft. You can use an MB or RR pressure plate depending on which flywheel you use. Both RR and MB flywheels have a bearing in the middle which needs to be removed as I stated in my previous post. I have never had to make the centre hole bigger!

Isn't the bearing in the crank on 016 cars?
Both MB and RR clutch discs should fit (are they even different?) as they're both from 016 cars. Or am I missing something here?

[~Delta]

Coupe quattro V6 is 3.89:1, but it's not an 016 transmission, as it's from the type 89 family.

MB and RR clutches both fit, the bearing for both MB and RR engined cars is in the flywheel, both need removing to allow the Coupe quattro transmission shaft to pass through, and a needle bearing from a type 85 Coupe q or Ur q (WR) needs to be pressed into the end of the 3B crank.

[~Delta]

Correction Petri, the bearing for both MB and RR engined cars is in the crank. I bought an MB engine recently, and I have just checked the flywheel - it is a 3B item, not sure what the engine was fitted to, probably a 10V turbo conversion on a type 89 car.

This means Floody can use his existing 3B flywheel, combined with a 3B clutch pressure plate and an MB friction disc. Of course, the bearing in the 3B flywheel will have to be removed to allow the longer type 85 shaft to pass through.

[Floddy]

That's probably what I read about, removing something from the centre of the flywheel to get the shaft through.

If anyone has more info, ervything is highly appreciated!

Don't know if I'll do this conversion or not, there is a few parts I'll have to find and buy first... I may have an 016 box from a type 85 CQ that's supposed to be 4.11:1

A bit OT, about the final ratio, I may have gotten it all wrong. Thought the car would go slower on the same rpm with 3.89:1 than a 4.11:1. But when I come to think of it, the other way around sounds more likely. Engine turns 3.89/4.11 times, and the wheels turns 1 time, when running 4th gear(1:1), or am I totally wrong here?

[Floddy]

May have found some additional parts for the project, if I go through with it!

Is this the part of the tunnel you'll need?



That's a 01E, though, but you se wich part it is!

And hmm, perhaps this will fit?

http://www.vombsmotorsport.com/temp/kupe1.JPG
http://www.vombsmotorsport.com/temp/kupe2.JPG
http://www.vombsmotorsport.com/temp/kupe3.JPG
http://www.vombsmotorsport.com/temp/kupe4.JPG
http://www.vombsmotorsport.com/temp/kupe5.JPG