20vT mated to Lower ratio 016 'box

[Ian Simmonds]

Quick request to all those running an 016 lower ratio box (in say a type 85 coupe quattro or 90 quattro) now mated with a 20valve turbo engine. Can you give me an idea of engine rpm against roadspeed in a selection of gears, but especially 5th. -

Say 3000rpm, in 5th = xxxmph...
4000rpm in 5th = xxxmph... etc

If you could, that'd be brilliant.

Many thanks in advance

Ian

[kwlw]

Quick request to all those running an 016 lower ratio box (in say a type 85 coupe quattro or 90 quattro) now mated with a 20valve turbo engine. Can you give me an idea of engine rpm against roadspeed in a selection of gears, but especially 5th. -

Say 3000rpm, in 5th = xxxmph...
4000rpm in 5th = xxxmph... etc

If you could, that'd be brilliant.

Many thanks in advance

I don't remember exact ratios, but engine has nothing to do with the information you are requesting. It's only gear ratios. If you get those for 5E or US gearbox codes, you can recalculate speeds (assuming you have some test mule with known gear ratios).

If I remember correctly, only 4 gear is relativelly different from S2 (and you feel that driving 20vt with old gbox).

Sau
EDIT some info for the "mules" (if there will be need, I can dig more info):
Gear B4 90q CQ S2 90q20v
1 3.500 13.611 3.545 14.576 3.500 14.389 3.545 14.576
2 1.842 7.164 2.105 8.655 1.889 7.765 2.105 8.655
3 1.226 4.767 1.429 5.873 1.320 5.427 1.300 5.344
4 0.943 3.667 1.029 4.232 1.034 4.253 0.943 3.876
5 0.816 3.173 0.838 3.444 0.857 3.524 0.769 3.162
6 n/a n/a n/a n/a 0.730 3.000 n/a n/a
Final Drive 3.889 4.111 4.111 4.111

[Ian Simmonds]

Thanks Sau...

So my KV engined Coupe Quattro at 70mph, is, say 3,500rpm on the 016 gearbox. And a 3B engine swap will keep this the same.

[Acidburn]

You thinking of swapping the engine over then ian? i'd have offered my 3b lump but another forum members having that afaik.

Just got the stainless exhaust to get rid of now and the new stuff can start being put on.

[Ian Simmonds]

It's something I'd like to do in 2009, hopefully before ADI09. As with all things in life, it depends on '£' as to how quick I get there. I've heard varying descriptions with putting 20vT's onto the 016 Type 85 'box, some from quite well known firms, and they've all described it differently, from, it drives fine and the ratio's aren't an issue (as Sau above) through to you'll need to change the lot over, engine, 'box, props, diffs and hubs. I know this is cobblers as Jogi730 (Chris's) 90 quattro's ran stupendous power without issue in the drivertrain. I'd be looking for a modest Chipped S2 to maybe eventually RS2 type output. But likewise, I'd like to know if a motorway run at 70mph is excessively busy... The noise I can put up with as a 20vT engine can only quieten it down.

[bluequattro]

i agree it s the box that changes ratios, but dont forget wheel and tyre size does to a small extent.
sacrifice noise etc for a better changing box ( my opinion) compared to s2 s i ve driven.

[jogi730]

Ian,
As you know, mine is off the road at present due to certain 'issues' being sorted out.
When I get her back on the road, the engine will be matched up with an 01E six speed.
For someone like yourself who does so much of the work, I would really suggest try it and see. I think it all depends what you are after, but I don't think you would be too disappointed.
With the T34 (390bhp), it was fine for real driving. 3rd and 4th, the mid-range driving gears worked very well. However if you are after lightning 0-60 times, the short ratios of the 016 will not allow hitting 60 in 2nd gear (but 4.54sec ain't bad I guess?). In 5th you can estimate just over 1000rpm per 20mph. Exhaust note is fine for shorter journeys around town but becomes a bit of a drone at steady motorway speeds, and obviously, economy ain't great.
With the T61, the ratios of the 016 are definitely just too short with 2nd, and particularly 1st almost a waste of time.
One thing though, if you do keep the 016, I would highly recommend the bilzcat short shift kit. Not sure if really made the shift the 30% (variable, but up to) shorter as claimed, but the feel and precision of the gearchanges the short time I used it was brilliant.
Hope this helps.
Chris

[jogi730]

Just to add, should you decide to go 6 speed route, there is an article in this month's Audi Driver. It's a 'How to' fit 6 speed gearbox without the need to put the S2 tunnel in. This is probable the route I shall be taking.
Chris

[Ian Simmonds]

Ideally, I'd like to get the power in first, then, when funds allow, move on to the drivetrain. In the end, I'd like the swap to 5 bolt fixings, and, together with the 'box, suggests a complete swap-over... But that's pushing it for the budget in one hit...
(because the cost in one hit looks more like a bathroom... And we don't want the funds going there...)...

[kwlw]

Ideally, I'd like to get the power in first, then, when funds allow, move on to the drivetrain. In the end, I'd like the swap to 5 bolt fixings, and, together with the 'box, suggests a complete swap-over... But that's pushing it for the budget in one hit...
(because the cost in one hit looks more like a bathroom... And we don't want the funds going there...)...

My personal recommended alternative is to use 016 box from 88+ year audi 100/200 turbo. They are strong (same gears inside), have torsen, and ratios optimised for audi turbo engine (same 10v and 20v as I've expierenced). Note, that those boxes may have differend main shaft diameter (AOB - thick, ADZ - thin), so you may need to change your crankshaft bearing. It is waaay easier to do before engine is in the car. Trust me, BTDT few times .

Also with torsen box, you need to grab flywheel and clutch assembly and master cylinder from the donor, as they are different from typ85. Also you need to swap driveshaft housings, as typ44 uses bigger ones (same as S2 or typ85 rear?).

Maybe it's only my habbit (220v is my daily driver, and cq is weekend sports car), but only after I've went torsen and matched gearing - my car started to be fast and driveable (now it feels like small, noisy and powerfull 220v).

However if you like your typ85 box (US or 6E), use it. It is more fun in slippery conditions with center locked.

Sau

[spink]

Sau,funnily enough i am using a ADZ from a ex Lithuanian Audi 200 20v 3b,just waiting on delivery of the needle bearing for the crankshaft and the bottom end/box will be put in next week.

It has been very easy to swap the flanges/linkage over from the 90q 016,probably about 1 hours work,which included putting new in new seals.One thing that i did scratch my head at first was the fact that the 200 box used an electronic speedo drive same as the S2 boxes,luckily the analoge drive can easily be swapped over from the 90q box.

[kwlw]

Sau,funnily enough i am using a ADZ from a ex Lithuanian Audi 200 20v 3b,just waiting on delivery of the needle bearing for the crankshaft and the bottom end/box will be put in next week.

It has been very easy to swap the flanges/linkage over from the 90q 016,probably about 1 hours work,which included putting new in new seals.One thing that i did scratch my head at first was the fact that the 200 box used an electronic speedo drive same as the S2 boxes,luckily the analoge drive can easily be swapped over from the 90q box.

Yes, I forgot, that not everyone has digidash . For digidash, there's no need to swap anything.

Sau

[20vQC]

On mine .. in top gear I'am at about 3200rpm and doing 62mph and yes, in 2nd gear I can hardly get some 60mph in the rev limiter. As I said to Rocco before, I do NOT recommend it if you are looking for a good top speed and better mileage or 0-62 acceleration bu I DO recommend it if you are looking for good 1/4mile times of even have it for track use! cheers!

[S2central.net]

Versus a 6-spd S2 which is about 75mph at 3000rpm - thats quite a difference as you say... Great for sprints though !

[Ian Simmonds]

On mine .. in top gear I'am at about 3200rpm and doing 62mph and yes, in 2nd gear I can hardly get some 60mph in the rev limiter. As I said to Rocco before, I do NOT recommend it if you are looking for a good top speed and better mileage or 0-62 acceleration bu I DO recommend it if you are looking for good 1/4mile times of even have it for track use! cheers!

That sounds spot on to me, for something that'll punt down country lanes like a Ferret with Colic, nice 270/300bhp with a KKK24K or similar small(ish) turbo for quick pick-up. All in a 1100kg 4WD shell...

Cheers

Ian