s6 auto box how fragile is it really

[UrS4boy]

UrS6 Euro Engine and Transmission Combos

So Dave, have I picked up up correctly, are you saying that the 4.2 V8 and the AAN C4 cars had the same autobox when C4 had either of these two engines with an auto as opposed to a manual gearbox ? Thanks.

Sorry. I did not say that. The only thing I said was that the rear diffs were common between the AAN engine and the AEC V8 UrS6s. Nothing more.

To be more complete and to prevent further confusion:

The AAN-engined UrS6 came with either:

1. The CRG 4 spd auto box 01F300041QX and the CKL 35/9 3.89:1 017500044G (or 044M) rear diff or

2. The CBL 01E300044EX 6 spd std with the CKF 37/9 (4.11:1) 017500044N (or 044H) rear diff

3. The CET 01E300044JX 5 spd with the CKF 37/9 (4.11:1) 017500044N (or 044H) rear diff

Whereas, the AEC V8-engined UrS6 came with either:

1. The 6 spd CMG 01E300043QX with the CKF 37/9 (4.11:1) 017500044N (or 044H) rear diff or

2. The 4 spd automatic CST 018300035JX with the CKF 37/9 (4.11:1) 017500044N (or 044H) rear diff.

The CST mated to the C4 UrS6 V8 is a ZF transmission, Type: 4 HP 24 A (ZF PN 1043 040 027)

The CRG mated to the C4 UrS6 AAN is also a ZF transmission, but it is a 4 HP 18 FLA (ZF PN 1050 020 032)

For confusion, the 174 hp V6 used the CRF 01F300042AX 4 spd automatic transmission which is also a 4 HP 18 FLA family ZF transmission (ZF PN 1050 020 038)

And that's all I've got to say about that.

[prj]

AAN has 4HP18, which was also used on 2.6/2.8 V6 automatic.
V8 has 4HP24.

[macspring]

So in theory, if one could ever find one, the manual six speed CMG from the C4 AEC V8 would be a stronger box than a CGR from an S2 ?

Thanks Dave.

[macspring]

Dave, is there much difference between an AEC C4 V8 and a V8 from a either a Mk 1 S8 or a Mk 2 S8.

Excuse my ignorance.

Thanks.

[Zoig]

Just FYI, the Automatic V8 C4 spieces had unique floor pan to the rest of them, even S6+ had the normal one. This is because 4HP24 from V8 is a LOT wider than 4HP18 from 2.2T.
IIRC the 4HP24 had external dive shaft to the front diff (similar to newer manual 0B3 gearboxes), but 4HP18 had integrated shaft like normal 01E/016.

CMG could have narrow first gear but it might have wide one, fortunately that difference can be seen externaly. All CMG boxes had the flexible main shaft.

[UrS4boy]

AAN has 4HP18, which was also used on 2.6/2.8 V6 automatic.
V8 has 4HP24.

Correct. Thanks for the summary of what I said.

[UrS4boy]

CMG could have narrow first gear but it might have wide one, fortunately that difference can be seen externaly. All CMG boxes had the flexible main shaft.

My information says that the CMG has the same main shaft as the wide first/flexible shaft RS2 CRB, i.e. the 01E311105H. This might not have been always true since the system now shows two main shafts now, the 01E311105J in the "normal" (non-diesel) B3/B4/C4 5 and 6 speeds and 01E311105H in the CMG and the CRB.

[UrS4boy]

So in theory, if one could ever find one, the manual six speed CMG from the C4 AEC V8 would be a stronger box than a CGR from an S2 ?

In my opinion, if the CMG actually does have the 01E311105H wide first/flexible shaft, same as the later RS2's CRB, as the part info says it should, the CMG is a) better than the CGR *AND* b) it is better than the CRB.

The reason I say (b) is the CMG has an oil pump that recirculates tranmission oil through a C4 radiator, the same radiator as used with the C4 automatic transmission cars, with cooling passages in the radiator for the tranmission fluid. This oil pump, PN 01E315105C, is the same pump that was used on the DSY tranmission (and others) used in the B5 S4 2.7tt. (Also used on the manual transmissioned Audi V8s and the DGV 6 spd in the early 340 hp AHC-engined S8s)

[Zoig]

Dave, i have taken apart 2 CMG boxes, one newer that is currently in my car (105H - wide and flexible) and another that originally came from 1993 UrS4. Older one had narrow first gear but was flexible, i didn't write down the part number in that box but i guess its not that hard to find out what it might have been.

Edit: The narrow and flexible main shaft should be 01E 311 105 E according to Charles Smith's page, http://www.elektro.com/audi/01E/ind1.html
ETKA ofcourse does not have that info anymore.

[UrS4boy]

... i didn't write down the part number in that box but i guess its not that hard to find out what it might have been.

Actually it is very difficult. Kate's older sisters retired from work and they can't be easily asked because the computer systems that they used in the parts department back then are outdated and not used anymore.

[Zoig]

Dave, look up, I managed to dig out that part number. Also my ETKA does not cary that PN anymore, i guess it was dropped a while back.

[UrS4boy]

Dave, look up, I managed to dig out that part number. Also my ETKA does not cary that PN anymore, i guess it was dropped a while back.

I know Charlie Smith (RIP, BTW) and his 01E website. I think Charlie originally worked from the microfiches of the day. Unfortunately, Charlie was apparently not aware of the CMG transmission and did not document it like he did with the CRB (and others). Too bad because it would be interesting to know what main shaft the first CMGs came with for sure and when, if any there was a switch from one, e.g. 105E, to another, e.g. 105H.

Just checked 01E311105E was dropped in favour of the 01E311105H on 01/08/1999, i.e. well after all the CMGs were built.

[Zoig]

Sadly the UrS4 box is sold now, othervise i could have given you the serial number of the current box and the old one, just to get approximate range when the switch happened.

[UrS4boy]

Sadly the UrS4 box is sold now, othervise i could have given you the serial number of the current box and the old one, just to get approximate range when the switch happened.

IF indeed there was a switch. See my edit above (105E dropped 01/08/1999 in favour of the 105H). But that doesn't mean that no CMGs were build with 105Hs. It just means that the inventory didn't keep 105Es in stock anymore after that date.

[UrS4boy]

4HP24A info

Just FYI, the Automatic V8 C4 spieces had unique floor pan to the rest of them, even S6+ had the normal one. This is because 4HP24 from V8 is a LOT wider than 4HP18 from 2.2T. IIRC the 4HP24 had external dive shaft to the front diff (similar to newer manual 0B3 gearboxes), but 4HP18 had integrated shaft like normal 01E/016.

Not that I want an autobox but I was curious about the 4HP24A and your suggestion about an external drive shaft to the front diff. You are correct:

Service pdf: http://www.zf.com/media/media/docume...a_4/4HP24A.pdf

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