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  • URS6 heavy clutch pedal.

    Following on from quattro-nicks excellent thread "my solution for a heavy clutch pedal" I posted " Do you think this could be made to work for the heavy URS6 clutch pedal? Daves reply to my question received quick interest from others. I then asked the question "is a heavy clutch pedal a trait of the URS4 and URS6" and didn't get a reply.

    So to try and answer my own question and to therefore help others i got out my copy of Volkswagen Audi Car May 1997 where there is an excellent test article "The last of the Turbo fives" to see what could be gleaned from there and i found this.

    Quote " The gearchange for the six-ratio manual box is much smoother than when it was first released and, once you have got used to having four planes of movement and remember there is a sixth gear,it becomes a source of pleasure. Or rather,it should, but the pleasure is marred by an EXTRAORDINARILY HEAVY CLUTCH, a feature common to all S class Audis. We cannot see any reason for it: the linkage between pedal and clutch is hydraulic and the cylinders could be designed to give lighter operation without excessive movement. Alternatively, you could opt for the four-ratio automatic transmission and, if the motoring is largely in urban areas, we would choose this version. True, it saps both acceleration and, more dramatically, fuel economy, but it does take the strain of the left foot and makes this big car much more pleasant to drive in traffic."

    Hope that clears it up.
    96 URS6 plus speck saloon
    96 URS6 plus speck estate
    94 2.6 80 Avant
    99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

  • #2
    A heavy clutch in an Audi is usually indicative of a clutch in need of replacement. This is more of an issue on a stock clutch with over 100k. See this alot on BMWs too. Trouble is on an UrS4/6 if you persist on driving with a heavy feeling clutch it will eventually break the clutch pedal where the lever meets the clutch master cylinder. I have two spares just in case.
    On my S6 I changed my clutch along with adding a lightened & balanced 7a flywheel when I installed an EDU 6-speed. The clutch pedal effort had begun to increase & was becoming alarmingly more difficult. This played out over the course of a few months. I did not want to be stranded out with a clutch pedal stuck on the floor. Prior to this the clutch pedal effort felt OK to me.
    Chris
    Last edited by A1QSHIP; 6 November 2014, 17:49.
    "Nulla tenaci invia est via"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Vorsprung durch Technik View Post
      Hope that clears it up.
      Nope. It just is one reporter reporting about ONE test vehicle, which no doubt had been abused, dropping - the - clutch wise, wearing the clutch disk prematurely.

      The UrS4/S6 clutches get stiffer and stiffer as they wear. Here is a set of real world data from a meeting of my local UrS club back in 2005:

      **********************

      "So at our S-car club meet tonight (Dec. 15, 2005), in 1 degree celcius, I (Sean D., aka "quattro20v") went about measuring the pressure required to depress the clutch pedal on several cars using an electronic pressure gauge.

      From high to low, first number is peak pressure in kg, 2nd number is steady state pressure at full travel in kg.

      21.8/11.5 - Rob S (Skiguy) - UrS4
      21/15 - Dave F (Urs4boy) - UrS4
      18.1/12.5 - Wolf - UrS6
      17.9/11.5 - Gabriel (Iskolnick)- UrS4 with a new centerforce clutch, with original slave and master cylinder
      14.3/10 - Sean (quattro20v) - UrS6 with a new Luk clutch with new slave cylinder

      Its interesting that the pressure required to get over the "hump" is higher than holding in the pedal, say at a stoplight."

      *************
      Cltuch pedal failure modes: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/186276.phtml

      If your UrS4/S6 clutch pedal is becoming increasingly and annoyingly stiffer, you are risking a clutch pedal-related failure until you replace the clutch.
      RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
      94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

      Comment


      • #4
        Then you have to replace the whole car, because it is old.
        1-2-4-5-3

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Chris i hear what your saying and i have experienced driving 2 manual S6 estates and could tell one felt a bit lighter than the other but even the lighter of the 2 was still heavy when compared to a 2.6 audi 80 and a 2000/2001 A4 diesel we have. I can't say i have noticed my 2.6 80 avant clutch getting any heavier over 14 years so is this phenomenon peculiar to the URS6 as i believe what your saying when yours suddenly got heavy.

          Duffelcoats old S6 clutch felt good to me now owned by Shaun but shaun says it's too heavy for his wife the reason why he has bought a Auto S6. I guess some of this is subjective but none the less i think there must be some truth in this that they are heavy.

          ( Dave ) My clutch has not got heavier over the last 2 years since i bought it. The biting point is perfect. Apparently my clutch was changed for new about 5,000 miles ago gleaned from a chat on the phone from the previous but one owner along with lots of other good maintenance done.

          If anyone has owned the URS6 and another same period audi at the same time can they confirm if there was a difference in clutch pedal force between the 2 cars. I am experiencing perfect clutch pedal weight on 2.8 cabby 2.6 80 avant and the A4 diesel.

          Cheers.

          Originally posted by igor136 View Post
          Then you have to replace the whole car, because it is old.
          If that were the case we are all up the creak so just being old cannot be exclusively the problem......maybe wear more like.
          Last edited by Vorsprung durch Technik; 6 November 2014, 20:14.
          96 URS6 plus speck saloon
          96 URS6 plus speck estate
          94 2.6 80 Avant
          99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

          Comment


          • #6
            My clutch pedal is also heavy but I will not change it.
            1-2-4-5-3

            Comment


            • #7
              On my car is 19-20 kg
              1-2-4-5-3

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Vorsprung durch Technik View Post
                My clutch has not got heavier over the last 2 years since i bought it. The biting point is perfect. Apparently my clutch was changed for new about 5,000 miles ago gleaned from a chat on the phone from the previous but one owner along with lots of other good maintenance done.
                I wonder if they just changed the friction plate?

                Lowest pressure in Dave's list has an aftermarket clutch but also had hyraulic components changed.

                My coupe is on a Spec Stage 3+ clutch dealing with about 450-500 hp and loads of torque. its lighter than the original by far and way easier to use and much more progressive than the stock clutch in the avant.

                S2 Coupe 3B Project


                Ur quattro restoration

                S2 Avant

                Boost is the new rock and roll!
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by newsh View Post
                  Lowest pressure in Dave's list has an aftermarket clutch but also had hyraulic components changed.
                  No. The lowest was with the new Luk (or LUK) clutch kit (pressure plate, disk and throwout bearing). LUK was the OE supplier for the UrS4/S6 clutches.

                  I can't see how a new slave cylinder would make things better, i.e. less pedal effort.
                  RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                  94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by UrS4boy View Post
                    No. The lowest was with the new Luk (or LUK) clutch kit (pressure plate, disk and throwout bearing). LUK was the OE supplier for the UrS4/S6 clutches.

                    I can't see how a new slave cylinder would make things better, i.e. less pedal effort.
                    Unless the new slave had a slightly larger bore in it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Some interesting comments there from John,Dave and Mike and appreciated.

                      I am hoping a few more people will Chime in with their thoughts and experiences.
                      Always good to hear different opinions as it definitely adds meat to the bone!
                      96 URS6 plus speck saloon
                      96 URS6 plus speck estate
                      94 2.6 80 Avant
                      99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ok
                        My first S6's clutch must have been ok/not heavy as I don't remember (or I was younger )
                        My S2 was the same but when I fitted a new clutch I lubricated the splines and I would say its a light clutch.
                        My S6 Estate (dufflecoats) has a heavy clutch
                        My S6 Saloon, I cant remember
                        The other cars ive got (80 saloon, estate, coupe) are what I would call normal.
                        My S6 Auto's clutch is extremely light

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shaun5 View Post
                          My S6 Auto's clutch is extremely light
                          Cheers for the info Shaun

                          Liking the Auto clutch being extremely light .......perfect for wafting eh!
                          96 URS6 plus speck saloon
                          96 URS6 plus speck estate
                          94 2.6 80 Avant
                          99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            URS6 heavy clutch pedal.

                            Ah, didn't realise the LUK was OEM

                            Friction in the slave cyl between piston and bore could perhaps cause increased pedal effort. Sometimes flushing fluid through can improve things too, whenever I've bled a clutch the fluid has always been black and manky.
                            I've fitted aftermarket Oberon slave cyls to 2 KTM motorcycles, in both cases the clutch was lighter after the upgrade.
                            Last edited by newsh; 8 November 2014, 02:23.

                            S2 Coupe 3B Project


                            Ur quattro restoration

                            S2 Avant

                            Boost is the new rock and roll!
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Intriguing, pretty sure you could Xylan (PTFE) coat the bore of the slave. Would reduce friction AND stop it rusting...theoretically

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