Scottish independance

[dm80]

Dm80,are you saying that people in scotland don't get free university education? Free NHS prescriptions?

The fees are free yes, as are prescriptions.

I don't think you'll find many people arguing up here about uni fees. However prescription fees are a different matter. Most right minded people saw this as a thinly veiled vote winner and they should be re-instated for people who can afford them.

Similarly (with regard to tuition fees), we don't want to see the NHS eroded into a pale shadow of it's former self into the private sector, which is what will inevitably happen in the event of a no vote and successive Tory governments (which we never vote for).

Education, like health care, in a right minded, fair society should be a right, not a priveledge. All IMHO.

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

The fees are free yes, as are prescriptions.

I don't think you'll find many people arguing up here about uni fees. However prescription fees are a different matter. Most right minded people saw this as a thinly veiled vote winner and they should be re-instated for people who can afford them.

Similarly (with regard to tuition fees), we don't want to see the NHS eroded into a pale shadow of it's former self into the private sector, which is what will inevitably happen in the event of a no vote and successive Tory governments (which we never vote for).

Education, like health care, in a right minded, fair society should be a right, not a priveledge. All IMHO.

I totally agree with your above post especially about successive tory governments and what they are doing to our NHS. Education and health care, in a right minded society should be a right,and not a privilege!100% agree.

What really makes my blood boil is if you or i or anybody tells lies about what they are going to do in a interview and we get the job because of our false promises but are then found out,we would be sacked. But....oh no Cameron promised "No top down reorganisation of the NHS" What did he do as soon as he stepped into downing street?
He started organising a top down reorganisation on the NHS despite his promises to the contrary.

If you or i were found out we would be sacked and yet cameron gets away with it. He should be sent to Jail for lying to the British public,just like Tony Blair for lying to us about Irac.Many 100's of thousands of innocent lives have been lost because of his lies and so would camerons lies if the tory party got their way and privatised the Nhs.Those that couldn't afford to take out health insurance would be left to die as they are in the USA. A total disgrace to any supposed caring society.

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

Before it all gets too heated lets remember we all love our S2's and so long as no one bans them politics can do one.

So in a total thread hijack and now for something completley different.

I've had two great drives this summer in my S2, both across the Cotswolds on sunny days when I was in no rush to get anywhere and the roads flowed nicely. Had some tunes on and my S2 was purring away.

What's the best drive you've all had in recent months.

I know what you mean mate but unfortunately non of us can get away from politics.Politics affects all our daily lives whether we like it or not.

Both my grandfathers were killed in WW2 and that affected our families massively.People need to be very careful what they vote for.Very careful.I voted for Tony Blair to become leader of the Labour Party and for sure it was good untill Irac and opening up our borders when every other euro country said no.
. Now look what that has done for petrol prices.It's affected S2 owners on here as most cannot afford to use them on a daily basis.

It might come as a surprise to some but Hitler came into power promising to sort out the economic mess in Germany and the germans laughable political mess where there were literally Dozens of parties. Nobody knew what was his real Agenda was did they?Only his inner circle.

[Ross]

Those that couldn't afford to take out health insurance would be left to die as they are in the USA. A total disgrace to any supposed caring society.

What! You not heard about obamacare?

I think there's a growing problem where at some point, the cost of each of us in terms of medical care throughout our lives will be more than we can ever earn

Isn't the hospital parking free in Scotland too? I might relocate before I need a visa to!

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

What! You not heard about obamacare?

I think there's a growing problem where at some point, the cost of each of us in terms of medical care throughout our lives will be more than we can ever earn

Isn't the hospital parking free in Scotland too? I might relocate before I need a visa to!

I'm already hatching plans to move up there....so my S6 quattro can be used to good effect in the Snow and ice

Of course i have heard of Obama care and all the Conservatives efforts in the US to stop it.Oh sorry i meant to say Republicans. Republicans/conservative one in the same thing politically.

Remember George W bush the cleverest Conservative president they ever had who couldn't' even answer the question "what's the capital of France" When he finally spat out his wrong answer the rest of the USA who didn't already know he was an idiot soon did.

[Rikki Kitto]

So we want to integrate "Europe" but Scotland want to go it alone Who cares anyway

[Colesy]

All this posturing about why Scotland should leave and the fact Sammond can't even say what currency your going to use.I see it like this.It's not happened to me yet but When your wife says to you, i found a better man and i'm off,your going to be devastated. So she goes and then doesn't like her decision and wants to come back or wants the benefits she once enjoyed.What are you going to say? Your going to say you made your bed now go lye in it. Get teh ....!

If westminister is so bad,how is it then that we kept or should i say Labour refused to join the Euro therefore keeping our independance which has benefited the British Isles massively since the economic crash. @ Colesy said that Labour caused the economic crash here in Uk. So how did Labour manage to crash the rest of the worlds economies at the same time? HHMMMM ( WRONG! ) It was the sub prime mortgage lending market that went tit's up because of the Voodo economics the fecking gready bullsh*ter capitalists in the USA were practising then selling these toxic debts to every bank in the world and effected every western economy.So Labour were that clever, they managed to screw every western country HA HA HA.Total nonsense!!

Scotland according to my scottish buddy Robert who's 50, and seen a bit in his life, says Scotland is going to vote NO anyway. It won't be long now before we see who is right.

You should get your eyes tested, among other things, I didn't say they caused the financial crisis. I said Labour wrecked our economy. They did this by spending beyond our means throughout the economic boom leaving us with a deficit at the start of the crisis This left us with no reserves to overcome the crisis. While in government they wasted billions on quangos & PFI. They sold half of our gold reserves at a record low price. Taxation under Labour rose to completely unsustainable levels for business and individuals. It will take decades to undo the damage done and pay off the defecit.

It might come as a surprise to some but Hitler came into power promising to sort out the economic mess in Germany and the germans laughable political mess where there were literally Dozens of parties. Nobody knew what was his real Agenda was did they?Only his inner circle.

You might also be interested to know that Hitler was a socialist!

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

Colesy.... the tories were such a useless opposition to the Labour party that they agreed with all of Labour's economic plans right up to 2008.Fact!! So who's right you or the tories? What have you to say about that? Tories only differed economically over Labour propping up the uk banks from collapsing.Tories said let them fail.That's capitalism they said. Labour did the right thing and propped up the banks thats what we are all having to pay for now along with every western Government as they were ALL affected by the same thing!

Imagine what would have happened if the government let the banks fail. Armageddon. No body would be able to pay anyone around the world electronically.All electronic payments just wouldn't happen because the institutions /banks that handle them would have been bust. JP morgan was too big to fail yet it dramatically failed and thank god the rest of the western governments stepped in just like labour and proped things up.Business and comerce would have been severly hit causing far worse than what we saw and are enduring.The american car giants were failing untill Obama gave them billions to get throught the economic mess and melt down.Now those same companies are stating to boom again. So you tell me who's right.

And this business about spending too much.Labour had no choice but to repair School roofs that the tories let get into such a state. 24hrs to save the NHS. How ture because in 1997 if you needed a critical operation under the tories you would have to wait 2 years and more!! That's why there was such a massive landslide victory for Labour in 97 because people were sick to the back teeth of the tories running everything down that the less well of use THATS THE VAST MAJORITY becasue they cannot afford private so the torries could keep dropping tax for the rich few ie their mates.And they are still doing it today for the tiny few that's not what the majority want. Conversely the tories are doing some good things like dealing with the public sector state workers gold plated pensions something labour were to scared to tackle politically.

[Cottis]

Yeah Labour are rubbish for sure. So are the conservatives but not quite as bad. Liberals are, well too liberal and UKIP are borderline racist. There seems to be a genuine lack of real representation. I am not sure how it will turn round. You just end up trying to pick the best of a bad bunch.

Labour just handed out far too much stuff to far too many people who did absolutely jack to deserve it. At least the Tory's stand for slight fairness rather than using capitalist success to fund the useless chaff. Trouble is, they also want to line their own pockets and eek out majority votes by appealing to the richest.

It needs a 30yr plan to break a generation of worthless, useless scumbags. I will take that job happily. Someone at my work has kids and recently they overheard a parent say to their child "you must learn to read and write otherwise you won't be able to fill out your dole form" These people need shooting and whilst the bullets are finding their mark, we need to ensure that every new child that comes into the world has educational, family and social opportunities as a right. Until not that long ago, you needed a licence to own a dog. Something should be done about human breeding.

If we reached a situation whereby nobody expected or wanted benefits, there would be no requirement for Labour and everyone would see the Tory's as the silver spoon brigade that they are. We would probably end up as a bunch of socialists.

Hmm, bascially there is no answer. Run Scotland run. Maybe you have it right after all. If we are all failing "together" you might as well go fail alone. At least you will know where to point the finger and can live with the fact that you're ironing your sheets and fluffing your own pillows rather than having your beds made for you.

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

Double post not sure why.

[geneandbolly]

You might also be interested to know that Hitler was a socialist!

and he had a funny moustache too.

i heard that if scotland says "**** off, fatty" to salmond, then david camaroon is going to flood scotland with hot eastern european babes that love audis...






i know who i'm voting for . .

[Colesy]

Colesy.... the tories were such a useless opposition to the Labour party that they agreed with all of Labour's economic plans right up to 2008.Fact!!

Of course they did.

and he had a funny moustache too.

i heard that if scotland says "**** off, fatty" to salmond, then david camaroon is going to flood scotland with hot eastern european babes that love audis...






i know who i'm voting for . .

If that's not going to win votes then I don't know what will!

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

You should get your eyes tested, among other things, I didn't say they caused the financial crisis. I said Labour wrecked our economy. They did this by spending beyond our means throughout the economic boom leaving us with a deficit at the start of the crisis This left us with no reserves to overcome the crisis.

What do you mean by other things?

Colsey go check it out the real facts and figures.I just spent 10 mins looking and found this. They do exist and are available for anybody to scrutinise.


"The level of spending under Brown and Blair was actually lower as a percentage of GDP than under Thatcher and Major. Most of the deficit was run up bailing out the banks, which happened due to policies which were *too* business friendly – i.e. torie policies adopted by New Labour.

Anyone who thinks the tories would have done anything other than follow exactly the same extreme pro-business model, and faced the same subsequent crash, is a deluded fantasist."

Colsey...by the logic of your arguments are you going to blame labour if scotland votes yes to independence? You need to understand that the Scottish by and large Hate the Tories otherwise why are there more pandas in Edinburgh zoo than torie MP's in Scotland.

[geneandbolly]

You need to understand that the Scottish by and large Hate the Tories

it's true, we do . .

[Colesy]

Colsey...by the logic of your arguments are you going to blame labour if scotland votes yes to independence? You need to understand that the Scottish by and large Hate the Tories otherwise why are there more pandas in Edinburgh zoo than torie MP's in Scotland.

I'm not sure how you could blame anyone for Scotland for going independent. I'm aware of Scottish political allegiances, this did start with my reference to Labour loosing 41 MP's if Scotland goes independent. It is ironic that Scottish disillusion with a Tory government might lead to Labour loosing a heartland though. Although I do think everyone in the UK will loose out in the long run if the union is broken up. But it's up to the Scots at the end of the day so good luck to them.

Where exactly are you getting your "real facts and figures" from? Anyone can grab a quote from the internet put it in quotations a declare it FACT! Either way you have your view of history, I have mine. We could both spend all night grabbing quotes from the Telegraph and the Guardian to counter each others arguments and points of view but at the end of the day we'd just be wasting each others time. So I'll be leaving it there as I've got better things to do.