Formula 1

[ciaranthemurph]

I REALLY hope McLaren do NOT appeal against the BMW fuel technicality, I firmly believe that Lewis would not want to win the title due to some court room battle.

I agree and although not an ardent fan of Hamiltons, I would imagine that if he is the driver's driver that everyone makes out he is, then it would be a hollow way to win the Championship. I'm sure he would be quite embarrassed to win in this way and if he has the right car and team behind him, he will be able to win the championship before too long. It's not just the Ferrari man in me saying this, but I'll probably come under fire for it anyway! Hopefully not as much as when I said that I was a Schumacher fan though.

[Keeper of The Kitten]

Firstly, @Dest - I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren appealed, as they've come away from 2007 with nothing. That said, I can't necessarily agree with them if they do.

Secondly, this has happened before - and on the previous occasion, the teams found to be breaking the rules were reinstated a week later. So I wouldn't be getting any hopes up for a change to the result.

But stranger things have happened...

It does however prove that no team is above cheating - and strictly speaking, if you're going to penalise one team for it's infringements earlier in the year, you must penalise all teams for their infringements.

And one thing I will maintain is that Ferrari have indeed been running illegally all year with those wheel covers, which they have been using with the excuse of a bizarre technicality regarding the difference between a brake duct and some other piece of aerodynamic equipment (never mind that they contravene a rule about wheels being made from an homogenous metallic material)

...and if they really don't make much difference, why have they been so keen to keep them?

[Keeper of The Kitten]

Note - the front covers are not attached to the wheels, so they don't contravene the wheel ruling, but the rears do (Toyota have also been using similar covers, I think they've even used the non-rotating fronts).

But if each cover part is an aerodynamic device, they move in relation to the body/chassis unit (to use the words of the technical regulations), which is illegal. It's only their interpretation as brake ducts which "sort of" makes them legal. Sort of.

[Fat Audi 80]

Plus it makes the front wheels look PANTS!

I'd like to see the BBS's behind them myself....

On a serious note, No, it is no way to win a world champ on appeal....

Cheers,

Steve.

[stevieyid]

@Keeper of Kitten, am i right in thinking the previous occassion that this happend it was David Coulthard involved with i think Michael Schumacher? I was under the impression that there infringement was more down to paperwork rather than the actual temp of the fuel? Does seem strange to me how Lewis lost all power then it managed to come back on????

[Keeper of The Kitten]

I think that was an incident relating to fuel samples rather than actual fuel temperature.

I think the previous incident that was referred to predates the one you are referring to. What happened in the fuel samples infringement was that the actual samples didn't match the indicated content, which they are supposed to.

Hamilton's problem was (as far as I am aware) a gearshift issue, which may or may not have been a result of monstering the kerbs in his efforts to chase the leading runners. He should have let Alonso pass and carry on in fourth place, but there's no telling whether he would have suffered the problems with the car that he had.

In reality, of course, McLaren and Hamilton lost the championship at the previous round, when LH should have scored points instead of ending up in the gravel with bald tyres.

[veneto rs2]

I think that having on hand the blueprints of another team it's far different then sneaking a look or a photo on the pits........
Declaring then that: Yes we had the blueprints but we did'nt look at them it's.......
i don't know........ but it's a long time i don't believe in fairytales and Santa Claus
On top of that all the e-mails and text that went on between Alonso and De LaRosa speaking about the informations extracted from those blueprints got McLaren cought with fingers and toes in the jam............

On top of that Ferrari won the constructors championship despite the penalization that was gave to the McLaren.............

The victory of Ferrari it's due in my opinion to:

A mad strategy inside the McLaren Team specially between the two pilots Alonso and Hamilton
They forgot i think that Alonso is a two time winner of the Championship and the other one is (fast as you want) an absolute beginner with all the related problems i.e. going out at 30Kmph and the crazy attempt to overtake yesterday that send him on the grass as well (and that it's just the lack of capability on standing the pressure)
But from outside (Italy in this case) it's weird the big issue that went on in England about Hamilton and this "English team English pilot" (despite the German motor and partnership) and all the "Tam Tam" on the media about this guy......
It's probably for the English weird as well that in Italy we don't give a damn about who's driving the "ROSSA" we support the Ferrari and not the pilots if the driver is from the Samoa Islands (no offense i take the example cause it's pretty faraway...) and the Ferrari it's first it's good enough for us....

The number of Victories it's there and............ Raikkonen has the score end of story i reckon usually it's that number the important one............. or not?

Stefano

[Keeper of The Kitten]

Stefano, you are of course referring to the German engine made in the UK?

(I agree about Hamilton being a beginner and he made beginner's errors when the really important moments happened)

[stevieyid]

Maybe be a beginner but 9 podiums in row would suggest to me that he is more than capable of beating the best. All the drivers made mistakes throughout the season even the most experience ones. I think Hamiltons win at the Nurburg showed that he has what it takes.

[veneto rs2]

Yes i referred to the German engine but more i referred at the number of sharings of the McLaren firm that are positioning the property more in German/English rather then English/German....

I'm not saying that Hamilton is not good i reckon he's the best talent on the Circus in teh last years that's granted for me (much more then Button i.e.) but his behaviour (last one the slowdown show he put on with Raikkonen in Interlagos qualifies) is not making any good to his reputation outside England.... honestly he started to be kind of "arrogant" to my (and not only mine) eyes.....
A little bit like Schumacher........... i always disliked is attitude is behavoiour on the track specially on the starting lines...... do you remember all those lanes changing that Scumacher was use to do it? Changing lanes like that is annoying in normal traffic! on track i think it makes you will to strangle him!

It's sad for the McLaren "tifosi" anyway that McLaren had this season the former Champion and the best young talent and some blueprints (very expensive blueprints at the end of the day...100 millions euros!) and it ended like that........

Stefano

[lini]

I always have to laugh when I hear about somebody behawing on a track. That is like somebody talking being rough at box. The thing that is caled racing for my opinion is the thing of knowing the car, being able to control the car and to have the balls to go for it. Rules of overtaking rules of being a gentleman on track is yust stupid and are created from people that have no balls. The practice is a problem of organisation they could wait until the slow driver was in the garage until the would let another to go for a fas lap, just like the SBK use to do or still does. And talking about how somebody didnt let other guy to owertake him, that's buls**t. What is left of racing then? This days we only see racing when somebody makes a mistake or somebody is realy slower then another. Ewerything else is only racing on the paper calculating and blefing. Real racing is dead for years now. For my opinion racing is when somebody has more balls then another and he can show that on a track. If you call this racing and the drivers racers then it's finished this people are not driving a car anymore they dont controle it, the cars are controled from the pits the driver only turns the wheel. Ok they are sportsmen and fit and have a great concentration but the ches players do to.

[veneto rs2]

Well got your point mate............
But if we follow your philosophy to the point then it's not anymore track racing but something like Luna Park cars racing.
Going on the track the last minutes knowing perfectly that you have no chance of making a useful lap for the grid............ get in front of your rival just to slow him down while he's doing his useful launched lap... don't do a proper left not a proper right (as per rules) but sitting there just for...... somebody can tell me why?

Also if you talk about boxing......
Boxe the "noble art" has rules or do you justify Tyson biting is opponent ear off?
Is it that "more balls"?

Said this i'm missing too Villenueve Mansell Rosberg Senna and the old lions but i don't like this way of cheating like Scumacher on changing lanes to just obstruct the way to a faster pilot..... that it's not racing and it's not loyal and it's not good and it' just stupid

I think the same about the manouvre from Hamilton with Alonso on the pitstop when he was waiting for what? The coupons? Oil level check? Or when he played chicken with the safetycar and got two other pilots collision as result and the last one on qualifies in Interlagos with Raikonnen.

I'm not speaking as a Ferrari "tifoso" about this Schumaker did the worst things when he was driving the Ferrari (the cherry on top of was when he hit the wall at probably "ZERO" kph in Montecarlo just to get Raikkonen stopped in qualifies.... do you remember?)

I don't think these are examples of what you call "more balls"


Stefano

[lini]

This could be prevented with rules. That kind of moves would never happen if the drivers could race on the track. The interesting thing is that ewery example you put in the post is at race timeout. Sfatey car, pitstops, training and all that is activities that were invented for safetey crap and are not even worth talking about. If we talk about racing during the race the point is that the driver from behind doest pass you. And making the rules about that is killing the race spirit.

[veneto rs2]

Point taken
But qualifies are a little bit important on the car racing world
as a person who loves car raceing and motors you should be more conceirn about it..... don't you agree?
by the way fortunately there are rules in every sport you could ask yourself why

Following your opinion if the driver behind has no space or chance to pass (i.e. in Montecarlo Gran Prix) even if he has a faster car....
he should then push the other one out 'cause he has more guts?

My post and my considerations were a little bit more open minded than just "balls"
So with this............ i rest my case.

Stefano

[lini]

I agree on the importance of qualifying thats more than clear. But the rules like not move more than one time during start is stupid. Pass me if you can or others will pass you.

About racing with no space that is trendy now and all the tracks are now adopted to the way that the points that alloved overtaking are erased. Why? Because tha lag of balls. Racing is a dangerous sport.

About racing in MonteCarlo. They want to ban from the streets everyone that is driving too fast, but for money we can have a race in a smal city no problem. Races shoul be done on track and if the track is biuld for racing it should alow racing inclouding overtaking not just a time trial. In the end maybee you'll see that complete F1 is reduced (speeds, power, downforce, tyre grip). For that reduction we dont see racing since the time of turbo engines we are just watching time trials and this is not realy racing anymore. Why the reduction? Lag of balls.