V6 quattro sedan is calling to me...

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  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #61
    I'd go back to first principles... Look for crank and camshaft pulses first... Check all fuses... Check that fuel pump is running... injectors are pulsing ... and that its trying to spark...

    Any fault codes telling you anything yet ? I could maybe get a race over in the next week or two if you are stuck. Its gonna be something stupid.

    Any chance you have inadvertantly open a hidden kill/immo switch ?
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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    • gunman
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Jan 2009
      • 660
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #62
      got no spark of any sort on any lead, main suspect is the cam sensor but my shareware vagcom nor my fault code reader will communicate with the car. It's a bit dear for a hit and hope approach. A mate is bringing a snap on diagnostic unit down tomorrow and we'll see what it says.
      1996 Audi S6 Avant.
      1994 80 TDI - Daily Driver

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      • S2central.net
        Retired OG Mod
        • Jul 2003
        • 16590
        • Country: Northern Ireland

        #63
        Heres the engine schematics for a 92-93 AAH beastie...



        Tis Hitachi MPI pish though - not zee Bosch Motronic
        Paul Nugent
        Webmaster http://S2central.net
        Administrator http://S2forum.com

        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

        Comment

        • gunman
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Jan 2009
          • 660
          • Country: Northern Ireland

          #64
          Paul, I can hear the fuel pump priminng on ignition, no spark at all. Any idea how to test the cam and crank sensors with no more than a multi meter ?

          The cam sensor had the black plastic plug broken off the top of the sensor, still had wires connected tho, thats why it's top of my suspect list at the min.

          The car at some stage had an aftermarket alarm which i was told had been disabled and right enough drove Ok. My first thought was the imobiliser had kicked in again and i found a small toggle switch in behind the bonet release. didnt matter which way i set it, still dead so I took it out and bypassed it, still nowt. I have heard that the diagnostics socket connects to the ecu via the imobiliser (factory) biut my car has s flat plastic handled key so dont reckon it has one (would of explained why diagnostics didnt work)
          1996 Audi S6 Avant.
          1994 80 TDI - Daily Driver

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          • gunman
            S2Forum Maniac
            • Jan 2009
            • 660
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #65
            Thanks for that, not sure how much it'll help as I dont understand it

            I'll study it more tomorrow and see if it makes sense.

            by the looks of it theres 2 crank sensors?
            1996 Audi S6 Avant.
            1994 80 TDI - Daily Driver

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            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #66
              Hah - thats a bug and a half... only shows one POS unit and three of the six coils on the AAH schematic...

              Would be too weird for both POS units to die at same time - check fuse 32 which provides +ve feed to all the coils.

              Check fuse 21 is OK - that provides +ve feed to the black OBD plug which is needed to get VAGCOM to work.
              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • S2central.net
                Retired OG Mod
                • Jul 2003
                • 16590
                • Country: Northern Ireland

                #67
                If fuses are OK... then I'd also suggest camshaft sensor - thats G40... WIth an LED tester you should see a pulse from the signal pin every camshaft revolution.

                You really need a scope to test integrity of the crankshaft sensors - one of those (G4) is a reference pulse every rotation. Whereas G28 should be like a sawtooth signal generated by flywheel teeth - its used to calculate RPM. Search the forum for waveforms on the S2 - they will be similar looking signals to those.
                Paul Nugent
                Webmaster http://S2central.net
                Administrator http://S2forum.com

                1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                Comment

                • gunman
                  S2Forum Maniac
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 660
                  • Country: Northern Ireland

                  #68
                  cheers Paul, will check all tomorrow.

                  Good to get advice from someone who knows what they're talking about
                  1996 Audi S6 Avant.
                  1994 80 TDI - Daily Driver

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                  • S2central.net
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 16590
                    • Country: Northern Ireland

                    #69
                    Eyy up - just looked at the schematics again... properly this time... That V6 must be wasted spark - note how the coil packs have two outputs.

                    Would still be weird for single POS unit failure to kill all channels - unless its bad earth or something. Check that fuse (and all the ECU fuses actually) and the primary sensors mentioned.
                    Paul Nugent
                    Webmaster http://S2central.net
                    Administrator http://S2forum.com

                    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                    Comment

                    • gunman
                      S2Forum Maniac
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 660
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #70
                      checked every fuse, no blown ones, My attention was drawn to the alarm so i actually spent most of the evening discionnecting it, still no difference. The cam sensor has brown/black as earth, yellow/white was around 6v, red/black was close to 12 and dropped to a steady 5 under cranking.

                      Still no further on but the snap on diagnostics didnt even connect and I found out something that seems strange. I thought the white plug went to the ecu but on this it goes to the 2 posts beside it, both of which are live??????? I'm leaning towards an ecu fault now, how do you get the ecu out?

                      cheers.
                      1996 Audi S6 Avant.
                      1994 80 TDI - Daily Driver

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                      • Flat on my back
                        S2Forum Fiend
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 2449
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #71
                        .

                        I would have expected a +5vdc regulated supply to the cam sensor, with the return pulse going from near +5 (+4.8 measured on mine) down to 0v in a square egde pulse.

                        Eg. top trace.
                        Attached Files
                        Carlos.

                        On the look out for less bits for my s2 saloon project. Now supporting myself by shooting for my food. www.airgunforum.co.uk

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                        • gunman
                          S2Forum Maniac
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 660
                          • Country: Northern Ireland

                          #72
                          hmmm, your meter looks a bit more advanced than mine
                          1996 Audi S6 Avant.
                          1994 80 TDI - Daily Driver

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                          • S2central.net
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 16590
                            • Country: Northern Ireland

                            #73
                            Mmmm - something doesn't smell right... As Carlos says - I'd expect nominal 5V coming from ECU to that black/red wire on the camshaft sensor (G40)...

                            I've never had hands on that engine before - but the signal on Carlos scope is what I would expect - there is something wrong in the wiring - check that the alarm install hasn't ******ed anything up or that wires are rubbed thru somewhere.

                            I have an ECU breakout box that can be used to buzz out every pin on the thing - if it comes to that.

                            I can't remember what the K&L pins (white OBD plug) do when not in use but +12V doesnt sound right.

                            Looking at schematic again - I see that G40 and the OBD plugs share the same connector block - labelled C on the drawings - there *might* be some loom damage that is common here... Strange it to pop up after a week of good behaviour - wonder if this was niggling reason for sale of car in the 1st place (yikes)... Or have you been working in some area that could have caused it accidentally ?

                            Remove Fuse 28 and see if you still get +12V at G40 (and the K/L pins).
                            Paul Nugent
                            Webmaster http://S2central.net
                            Administrator http://S2forum.com

                            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                            Comment

                            • gunman
                              S2Forum Maniac
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 660
                              • Country: Northern Ireland

                              #74
                              TBH some of the wiring under the dash can only be described as an abortion! It took a right bit of figuring out what the alarm had been wired to and beleive me it wasnt a professional job! Only work I did before this happened was to take off the air pipes to check for leaks.
                              1996 Audi S6 Avant.
                              1994 80 TDI - Daily Driver

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                              • S2central.net
                                Retired OG Mod
                                • Jul 2003
                                • 16590
                                • Country: Northern Ireland

                                #75
                                I feckin hate aftermarket wiring monkeys... It should be a criminal offense to do such shoddy work... I'd probably need 1/2 to a full day to unravel the mess and sanity check the ECU wiring to all its sensors and such... Could get real lucky and find something obviously nasty in a lot less time, but I couldn't promise that. Other thing I can't promise is when I'd get over to look at it. If you want that sort of help - let me know and I'll see what I can do... Maybe an evening would sort it if the car is in a well lit garage ?
                                Paul Nugent
                                Webmaster http://S2central.net
                                Administrator http://S2forum.com

                                1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                                2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                                2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                                Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                                There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                                Comment

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