S2's how quick are they really???

[rynaqui]

But that would be to completely miss the point.

There's something magical about it. Something you can't quantify. Something that makes it a pleasure even to pootle around town in.

[1781cc]

I've embarrassed a lot of cars using my wife's fiat 500 of al things, so many people don't understand momentum, traffic prediction, apexes, gearing and everything else. Couple that to a solid 4wd system and a torquey 5 pot turbo and its easy to see how it happens.

Cars have got faster but driving standards have slipped creating a huge exploitable gulf between the two

[Rikki Kitto]

I've embarrassed a lot of cars using my wife's fiat 500 of al things, so many people don't understand momentum, traffic prediction, apexes, gearing and everything else. Couple that to a solid 4wd system and a torquey 5 pot turbo and its easy to see how it happens.

Cars have got faster but driving standards have slipped creating a huge exploitable gulf between the two

[mackenzie50]

Yup, Lee's comment sums it up for most of us i'm sure-
you should see the looks I get when I 'rally' my 2.8 n/a mk3 Hilux (leaf springs allround!) along country lanes (as long as they're flat!)

[driftin jo]

I think the weight is a major factor slowing the s2 down. Loose a bit of weight and all that torque really shows who's boss. With my stock ABYed typ85 90 I had a go with a 320hp turboed integra and he couldn't get past and in 5th I was pulling away. The tag was stripped, caged, coil overs, big brakes etc and would have pumped me at the first corner if it was a closed road.


Torque wins races.

Sorry but this is incorrect !
It seems to have become very popular for a lot of people to
say “torque wins races” or “torque is what matters”, but it is fundamentally wrong, at least in the terms of how it is being used.

Horsepower is what matters, horsepower is a measure of the ability to do work.

Torque is just a measure of rotational force.

Obviously you need torque as horsepower is just a product of torque and RPM

Horsepower = (Torque x RPM ) / 5252.

There are many TDI's that can make 400 ft/lbs of torque but don't rev past 4500 rpm,
and even if they were making peak torque at 4500 rpm (which there not) they would
only make 342 HP.
Now take an engine that makes 300 ft/lbs of torque but makes this at 8000 rpm
and you have 457 HP.
Take two identical cars and the one fitted with the engine with less torque
and more HP will win hands down, period.

It's all down to gearing, torque at the wheels is what makes acceleration
and this is achieved with a gearbox.
The gearbox multiplies the torque from the engine, hence why you have
maximum acceleration acceleration in first gear then less in second and so on.

With a 10 foot scaffolding tube I could produce more torque than any tuned
S2 or any car engine ever made as I weigh ~200 pounds and me swinging
on a 10 foot bar would produce 2000 ft/lbs of torque, but I not going to accelerate car very
quickly as I can produce this torque at any useful RPM and thus make far less
than 1 HP.

I know what people mean when they say torque is what matters as the S2 makes lots of
torque low down the revs, but all this real equates to is that the S2 makes more HP
lower down the revs and it is this that make the car accelerate better than a car
with less torque at the same RPM, you just have more power, (horsepower).

This is why I have said before, be in the right gear, there is no point sitting in 5th
or 6th gear and thinking your peak boost of 1.4 bar or whatever is making the
most power, it isn't, peak power will be at higher RMP and less boost on a chipped S2.

Remember torque at the wheels is what makes acceleration and the higher the gear
the less the multiple of torque from the engine.
You will note that people who have serious tuned cars for drag/acceleration
often have custom ratios to make the most of were the power is in the rev range
as this can make a lot of difference.

[Carl Avant]

when playing and already moving I drop a gear lower than might be comfortable, nothing has been willing to keep up with me so far ... MRC RS2

[Dan]

Remember torque at the wheels is what makes acceleration and the higher the gear
the less the multiple of torque from the engine.
You will note that people who have serious tuned cars for drag/acceleration
often have custom ratios to make the most of were the power is in the rev range
as this can make a lot of difference.

The other thing to bear in mind there is that in a race environment, you can afford to have a torque curve that is weighted towards the top end, because you're always thrashing it; if you're going from standing you're doing a full-on launch; probably heel-toeing to keep the revs up in places.

Conversely, a car that gives preference to low-end torque -- what we're talking about -- is more drivable on the road, where you're not going out of your way to keep revs up.

In terms of HP versus torque, you're quite right that HP is a measure of the actual amount of energy that is being produced to accelerate the car. In other words, if torque is a push, then HP is x push, y times a minute. A smaller push, more times, might deliver more energy. A lower gear turns that into more motative force.

At the end of the day, single HP and torque figures are a very simplistic way of comparing two cars anyway. It's quite possible to imagine a theoretical torque curve that yeilds 1000 BHP at 6000rpm and 100BHP at 5500rpm. Okay, not going to be the case in real life (unless you've a really strange engine design), but the point is that you're literally sampling one single point of a curve.

If you really want to compare, you have to look at the torque curve across the rev range (HP, again, simply being a product of the torque at any given RPM). That'll actually give you an idea of how the car will drive.

[Monkeymagic]

Well to go back to my original post when i think about it i was pulling away and within10 seconds had covered a lot of ground.
Other factors are my car is 12 years older than the s3.
I don't know what had been done to the s3.

And the biggest factor of alle the time it takes me to change from 1st to 2nd smoothly takes ages
oh and there must be something that gets under your skin why else would you lavish so much time and money ?

[4WheelDrifter]

The way you think an S3 is lighter than your S2, and you think your gear change takes ages. I thought you had a 3B, not an ABY?

[Monkeymagic]

I mean the amount of physical throw between 1st and 2nd mate. I've come from a mk2 golf that had very little throw. Its not a criticism i love my coupe.
I have no desire to change things like that its character.

I like to think of it as the millennium falcon

[Dan]

Mine is very tight with the short shift kit. Not sure if I prefer it or not.

What I do need to get sorted is there's currently nothing stopping you from taking reverse by accident.

Understandably, this is a receipe for fun at traffic lights.

[4WheelDrifter]

I mean the amount of physical throw between 1st and 2nd mate. I've come from a mk2 golf that had very little throw. Its not a criticism i love my coupe.
I have no desire to change things like that its character.

I like to think of it as the millennium falcon

Ah-ha, I see. As Dan says, a short-shift kit helps there, or you just need to get quicker with your arm action. Or take a drive an ABY with its 6 speed 'box and dual mass flywheel, then you'll appreciate your 3B shift.

I think you will find both the 930 and 964 turbo are faster. To me it explains why the RS2 was only tuned to 315bhp with lots of lag, would have been a little embarrassing otherwise.

Yes. It would explain why they did such a crap job on the original RS2 mapping.

[Avantus]

Driftin Jo pointed it out correctly. It's RPM that also is important when looking at torque. Diesels do are getting faster and faster with rev ranges near and over 5000rpm.
But the day my K26/27 RS2 gets passed by a diesel I'm going GT35, no way I'm allowing that

[220bhp]

Driftin Jo pointed it out correctly. It's RPM that also is important when looking at torque. Diesels do are getting faster and faster with rev ranges near and over 5000rpm.
But the day my K26/27 RS2 gets passed by a diesel I'm going GT35, no way I'm allowing that

You might not get passed by a twin turbo Q7 deisel, but I would like to see you pull away from one on our straight roads even before the owner has had it chipped.And then out break it at the next roundabout.
Modern diesels are a different animal and the gap is closeing.Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of diesels,but they are no longer the noisey smelly smoke ridden sheds they use to be.
Whatever gear you are in.

[Gavin A]

An a8 4.o tdi is very quick. My mate has one remapped. A chipped s2 wouldn't keep with that. Also btw It would make no difference what map audi gave the rs2 it still woulnt be cometition for the 993 turbo unless it was towing an rs2. The audis were quick in their day but I think the hype is cnnected to highly tuned youtube cars. In 2012 the performance is ok. 230 hp n 1600 kg is average now and 311 in 1600 kg is a chipped vxr.

I love them and ive owned many S2s and URs i just regard them as a nice car rather than a fast one.