bit of legal advice pls

[s2driveruk]

Hi,

Need a bit of advice regarding a car sale that I walked away from late last week...save chapter and verse, here's the summary

Saw a listing on ebay for a car, I knew the car had failed it's MOT on 3 things itemised in the listing:

Wiper blades
blocked washer jets
front discs and pads

So, on the face of it nothing major. Made enquiries and asked specific questions about condition and any noises, creaks, leaks and groans etc, not least from the gearbox and aircon, all of which they confirmed via ebay message were fine.

I went out to a Christening so was not about to bid on ebay so made an offer before I left which they accepted. I then agreed to pay £100 deposit to secure the car and they would use that to buy the parts and get it MOT'd last week.

After probs getting it into a garage for the work, i said i'd come up and view the car and double check everything was fine and potentially they could drive it to me (their offer and thus risk) or i would do the failed items and get it MOT'd myself up there.

On arriving to inspect the car and check the VT30, I found 10 items it failed on , not the 3 they listed or confirmed over the phone along with a host of other bits, aircon not working, airbag light permanently on and the car not able to idle below 1400rpm, though peaked at 2000rpm

Naturally I said it was not as described or confirmed and not proceeding with the sale on that basis and that I wanted the deposit back into my paypal.

They are now witholding that and claiming it to cover their costs???? which is total b**lsh*t.

I have raised a dispute on paypal (even though the transaction was not done via ebay) but I have now found they have re-listed the car and still failing to disclose the full extent of the faults and now requesting a 'non refundable' deposit for any other unlucky sod who actually wins on ebay.

What are the options open to me to force the £100 out of their sweaty, grubby little mits? I have suggested that if the money doesn't come back I will start a small claims court action and have a chat with Notts Police about theft/money by deception but I guess that will prove fruitless. Any other options?

I know I've been a complete thicko to part with anything ahead of seeing the car but i spoke to them, emailed specifics and did all the checks I could to verify the car beforehand...?

Thankfully I did secure another car over the weekend which is a peach, so all is not lost

Cheers
David

[Jamo]

You've lost your deposit mate. You won't get it back for love nor money check the auction does it say it's non refundable?

I never buy items that require a deposit, for the above reason. Too many scammers.

Regarding the car report it to ebay and also you can report it to the police as fraud.

The problem is you went outside ebay which means it's not a legal contract.

[s2driveruk]

yeah pretty much think its gone, the re-listed item has non refundable deposit, the original made no such statement...

Of course i could make a second long trip to the doorstep and salvage parts to the tune of £100

[Nuvo]

David sorry to hear about your troubles. They want 100 pounds to cover their costs? The cost of you travelling to see them, or the costs of you paying them to put right the faults they chose to tell you? That's complete b0llocks whichever way you look at it.

You should have negotiated the 100 pounds off the asking price, but alas you put you trust in a complete stranger and rewarded with this crap.

You said that the car is still advertised on eBay with these blatant omissions, on that basis they are misrepresenting goods and you fallen fould of this. Perhaps contacting eBay to raise a dispute and tell them what you have posted here. Not sure if it will help much as I've heard a few people say thet eBay don't appear to be particularly concerned about such matters.

Alternatively, you could just punch the ***** head in, thats got to be worth 50 pounds at least.

[s2driveruk]

yeah to be clear I said that I wanted it with an MOT on it which they agreed to, the deposit was to be used to get the parts and have them fitted and MOT'd, it was in the total of the asking price, not on top of.

Yeah just wondering which club actually, driver or sand iron

Have had 79 trouble free transactions on ebay over the last few years, although this didn't complete on ebay it could so easily have done.....i might have to count myself lucky i wasn't at home and the winner. having said that I would never have paid in total ahead of seeing the car etc.

Misrepresentation is exactly the issue here.....lets see what happens

[s2driveruk]

just so you can be the judge....here is the original listing i saw and acted against in addition to a few emails and conversations on the phone:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...6905&rd=1&rd=1

here is the re-listed version, with slightly more information but still not the total picture...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...6622&rd=1&rd=1

note the bid friendly terms at the bottom....and oddly no bidders this time round

[Nuvo]

Clear as day. He can't just claim that the deposit is non refundable after you have paid him. It's wasn't stated in the advert you responded to. That's just plain dishonest, as is not listing all the MOT failings.

Very unlikely that he'll sell it with his newly proposed terms and conditions. Not many people would agree to them, I know I certainly wouldn't.

Don't let him get away with it whatever you do.

[Fat Audi 80]

Sorry to hear that David. I would do exactly as you have done, although I suspect it may turn out to be one of those £100 "life lessons"

I feel your pain. Not everyone ebay is a thieving **** but there are a few about!

Cheers,

Steve.

[HPmuirt]

I would suggest that you send him a formal letter, stating that you have contacted citizens advice bureau (i.e. you have sort free legal advice) and they advise the following: -

The contact terms as written by the vendor did not mention the requirement for a deposit and no agreement was made when the deposit was made that it was non-returnable.

Since the purpose of the initial payment was to secure the car on the basis that the car would be MOT'd, and they have not done this, then they are in breach of verbal contract (or written contract if you received a receipt for the deposit stating the terms).

The vendor misrepresented the vehicle in the original advertisement and has failed to rectify the faults and gain an MOT, therefore they are in breach of the terms of their own contracts (the offer to sell and the agreement to use the deposit for the MOT).

If they are claiming costs, then those must have been agreed to by you. If those costs were in respect of repairing the vehicle and gaining an MOT, then can they please supply copies of the receipts for this work. Since the car is now up for sale again, those receipts must be dated prior to the start of the new offer to sell, since by this date, the vendor has accepted that your purchase will not complete and has re-advertised the vehicle. Again a breach of your deposit agreement that stated that the deposit was to secure the car along with covering the cost of the repairs.

You therefore request that the £100 to be returned in full, within 3 working days or you will pursue a claim in the small claims court, which you have been advised that you are likely to win (according to the CAB )

Just a suggestion

Cheers n

Si

[s2driveruk]

Sounds like an avenue to explore, cheers Si!

[Acidburn]

thats practically it

I like that, he's saying that there is still other stuff that he has not disclosed, sorry to hear about stuff like this happening to you, its never good.

I bought a few years ago a 200 turbo automatic, the guy said that it would drive but the auto box was playing up, we got about 100 yards revving at stupid amounts so we gave up in the end.

As a general rule for myself personally I have not bought a car off ebay for a while, I just won't its just too easy to be scammed, i've bought a few and every one has had stuff wrong which was not listed, some stuff was small like trim problems to stuff like master cylinder (plastic top part) on a sierra cosworh leaking and upon getting it home and looking under the carpet found the floor pan was knackered (so promptly stripped the car and made my money back)

Has ebay said anything?

[s2driveruk]

no they haven't, not likely to as the sale wasn't completed on there...though they should in terms of the lack of transparecny on the listing and a potential scam in progress.

I have never bought anything or attempted to buy anything like a car previously on ebay and surely won't be in the future...

I wouldn't have minded but i made it perfectly clear that i wasn't worried about cosmetic stuff like dings and scratches as it was to be used for a station run and so on but i was specific about the mechanicals and the aircon & gearbox specifically. I gave them every opportunity to pipe up but obviously they didn't.

live and learn as they say

[Acidburn]

Yeah, its just annoying as its your hard earned that you use to do it.

Its a pity that it was not closer or you could have had another go at the person or done something to it to make it less effort. (bit extreme but still makes you feel better)

Still hope no-one bids on it or the person gets found out.

[Fat Audi 80]

I bought our '80 sport edition off ebay without looking at it. A very honest car by an honest seller....

It can work, or mayby I was lucky!

Good luck David.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Acidburn]

Yeah it seems a bit hit and miss on there, only car I have ever been truly happy with I got off ebay was my 20v quattro sport. I got it for a good price but because the owner did not get what he wanted they smashed the passenger window and said the radio got nicked.

There are some people on there who do tell you everything and are truthfull but lately its been full of conmen or people who "list stuff as fitting everything i.e. s2's ;o) ) but once in a while you do get a deal thats worth your time effort and mostly money.