New anti roll bar upgrades???

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  • stevieyid
    S2Forum Fiend
    • Apr 2005
    • 2251
    • Country: England

    #46
    Hi Liam, glad to see you made the thread. Ill bring the bars over tomorrow for you to look at.
    3'' Longlife Exhaust, Koni Adjustables, H&R Springs, Full RS2 Setup with Mr Nugents RS2 Chips (just need the RS2 Airbox)

    Comment

    • Rusty
      Super Moderator
      • Jun 2004
      • 18953
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #47
      Last time I got a quote for the FARB option on the rear it was just over £100 for the bar, bushes and cups. Bearing in mind that it is not bolt on I think that the rear price sounds about right. For the front bar, something nearer the £150 mark world be nice as we can get the RS2 FARB for about £200 anyway...
      Cheers'en, AndyC
      1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

      Comment

      • Error404
        Super Moderator
        • Mar 2007
        • 19789
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #48
        I've got a front and rear subframe in the garage i'll get as many pics as you want / need later

        Let me know what you want to see and i'll snap away

        Heres one of the front subframe, ARB and wishbones prior to assembly



        HTH
        Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
        Indigo ABY coupé
        Imola B6 S4 Avant

        Comment

        • S2central.net
          Retired OG Mod
          • Jul 2003
          • 16590
          • Country: Northern Ireland

          #49
          I like this thread

          When it comes to trial and error on any ARBs that come out of the development process - what kind of objective tests (by which I mean those without subjective results like 'feels better') can be done to actually measure the difference made to the chassis roll behaviour ?
          Paul Nugent
          Webmaster http://S2central.net
          Administrator http://S2forum.com

          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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          • stiglet
            S2Forum Extremist
            • Aug 2007
            • 1264
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #50
            Originally posted by S2central.net
            I like this thread

            When it comes to trial and error on any ARBs that come out of the development process - what kind of objective tests (by which I mean those without subjective results like 'feels better') can be done to actually measure the difference made to the chassis roll behaviour ?

            Corner entry speed:mischeif:

            Comment

            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #51
              Measured before or after hurtling into the armco ?

              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • stiglet
                S2Forum Extremist
                • Aug 2007
                • 1264
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #52


                Seriously though, if it's the balance of the chassis you're trying to alter the best way IMHO is just to drive it and see. I never was convinced of measuring handling by numbers

                Also liking this thread.

                Comment

                • anton
                  S2Forum Maniac
                  • Jan 2005
                  • 802
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #53
                  the problem with mods like this is its difficult to destinguish between subjective and objective benefits, with roll bars you can easily go way to far yet still get a subjective benefit.
                  what i mean is, a bigger bar will ALWAYS reduce roll, this feels good, but it may well be loosing you overall grip as it will effectively turn your independant suspention into a solid beam (anti-geometry i believe this is called, cant remember now as its been a while since i look at the books).

                  there is a big mis-understanding with suspension is that stiffer is better....it is in fact the opposite, only benefit in reducing roll is the effect the movement of the suspension due to roll has on the geometry. as has been said many times before on here, it is all a balance, putting on stiff ARBs with stock springs may only make a small benefit if any, however the stiffer setup will make it feel much better.

                  IMHO the ONLY way ot truly now what is better and what is worse is objective testing, just as Paul has said, easiest would be finding your favorite roundabout and gradually increace the speed till you cant hold the line, lap times are good too but we all have off laps lol. IMHO subjective 'bottom' testing is useless for mods like this, same with shocks, i was SURE my car handled better with my shocks on their max setting but lap times showed a decent increace when i set them to minimum.....

                  Ant
                  91' Coupe quattro 20v - project
                  KW V2s and other goodies
                  now gone
                  03' BMW 330CI - Sold
                  08' A5 Coupe 3.0l tdi quattro - Sold
                  57' BMW 525d M Sport Touring

                  Comment

                  • anton
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Jan 2005
                    • 802
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #54
                    thought i should add, all of what i said depends on what you want from the car, faster isnt always more fun.....stiff feels faster, but may not neccessarily be faster, but feeling faster is more fun than being faster IMO. thats why my shocks are always set to max

                    Ant
                    91' Coupe quattro 20v - project
                    KW V2s and other goodies
                    now gone
                    03' BMW 330CI - Sold
                    08' A5 Coupe 3.0l tdi quattro - Sold
                    57' BMW 525d M Sport Touring

                    Comment

                    • Rusty
                      Super Moderator
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 18953
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #55
                      On the road my RARB upgrade is great, on the track it's arguable too much. With a stiffer front bar to balance it I guess it would be better on track but on the road it would be quite harsh. I put up with it because it's cheaper to leave things than it is to buy shiney new parts

                      I've never driven a car with a whiteline, HnRs, upgraded bushes etc. so I can't comment on the combined effects until I get these parts fitted.

                      Interesting that mine on a stock chassis isn't overly sharp on the road (bar the quick steering) but on track it really comes alive under load. I believed the road testers of the time re: understeer etc. until I went on track and then it actually made sense, great fun is there to be had if you've got the balls to throw your pride and joy about like a hot hatch delicate inputs are for Carterhams and Lotuses
                      Cheers'en, AndyC
                      1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                      Comment

                      • stiglet
                        S2Forum Extremist
                        • Aug 2007
                        • 1264
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Andy_Casey
                        On the road my RARB upgrade is great, on the track it's arguable too much. With a stiffer front bar to balance it I guess it would be better on track but on the road it would be quite harsh. I put up with it because it's cheaper to leave things than it is to buy shiney new parts

                        I've never driven a car with a whiteline, HnRs, upgraded bushes etc. so I can't comment on the combined effects until I get these parts fitted.

                        Interesting that mine on a stock chassis isn't overly sharp on the road (bar the quick steering) but on track it really comes alive under load. I believed the road testers of the time re: understeer etc. until I went on track and then it actually made sense, great fun is there to be had if you've got the balls to throw your pride and joy about like a hot hatch delicate inputs are for Carterhams and Lotuses
                        Agree 100% Andy. The Coupe's are so chuckable it's almost funny. I reckon my balljoint extenders will probably ruin that but oh well.

                        Have to say that one of the best upgrades i've done so far was the Whiteline, but anything other than minimum seting is WAY too much for the track! Might be worth bearing this in mind when these custom bars are made...

                        Comment

                        • Rusty
                          Super Moderator
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 18953
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #57
                          You just have to accept that the back end is like a yo-yo and make sure that you put it into corners accordingly, i.e. with a little throttle. Must be the suspension geometry going doolally (sp.) when it all gets loaded up. It is, as you say, hilarious Stock rideheight and some 650lb springs should go some way towards sorting that out
                          Cheers'en, AndyC
                          1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                          Comment

                          • stevieyid
                            S2Forum Fiend
                            • Apr 2005
                            • 2251
                            • Country: England

                            #58
                            the amount of good reports the rs2 bar and the whiteline bar have surely if ESP can make a bar with the same effects and possibly cheaper that can only be a good thing. I get lost in all science of the affects
                            3'' Longlife Exhaust, Koni Adjustables, H&R Springs, Full RS2 Setup with Mr Nugents RS2 Chips (just need the RS2 Airbox)

                            Comment

                            • Rusty
                              Super Moderator
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 18953
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #59
                              I'll be watching the FARB progress...
                              Cheers'en, AndyC
                              1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                              Comment

                              • stevieyid
                                S2Forum Fiend
                                • Apr 2005
                                • 2251
                                • Country: England

                                #60
                                Just got back ESP after dropping off the anti roll bars that were greatfully donated by newsh. So hopefully in a few weeks time we can have an update on this. Unfortunately there is no way of measuring the torsional difference so it will have to be trial and error.
                                3'' Longlife Exhaust, Koni Adjustables, H&R Springs, Full RS2 Setup with Mr Nugents RS2 Chips (just need the RS2 Airbox)

                                Comment

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