GB custom s2 hats 996monos+993tt rings+rs2 OEM brackets

[90quattrocoupe]

Anton,
You can put me down for a set.

Greg W.

[auditude]

Yet another note (maybe I should read every word in detail). I can do 4x108 CQ just as easily as 5x112 for S2. So, 4 sets total (between the two) would be needed to get the GB pricing. Doesn't fit 80/90/B4 90/90 20v or anything else. Just CQ, S2, S2 sedan, S2 avant.

I have some questions about this and other big brake kits also.

I read that the hats need to be replaced after a while, albeit less often than the friction rings. Is that true and if so what is the replacement schedule?

How much does the hardware cost to attach the ring to the hat? I can imagine stuff like that adding up quickly, BTDT before with other stuff. I would like to be able to compare the total costs involved in different upgrade options, if possible.

Can Richard or someone comment on the interface between the hat and friction ring? I know that if the holes are slotted with pins or whatever, that heat distortion can occur when the rotor is not allowed to expand at a different rate from the hat. For example the topic here: http://www.stoptech.com/faq/data/faq18.html . I have heard great things about Richard's products, so I'm sure all the important stuff has been addressed. I'm just curious if either something was done about that, or if it isn't a real concern, etc.

I like to keep things versatile, as far as parts being able to be used on more than one car. I'm thinking if the brackets are cheaper than the hats, I might be better off going with one of Richard's standard hats instead of the CQ/RS2 bracket-specific ones since I can take my rotors with me to the 200q20v or whatever it may be, and get matching brackets from him for the calipers. If the hats need replacement every other rotor ring replacement or something like that, then it doesn't matter as much.

Richard, do you have a standard 5x112mm hat that works with both 80/90/B4 90/90 20v or anything else, and CQ, S2, S2 sedan, S2 avant (and specifically 200q20v's w/G60's)? These hats would have to work with car-specific caliper brackets, which is what I understand you/he was telling me earlier is typical and preferable for him(Richard).

I've never bought big brakes before, so I only want to do it once per car, or less if I can swap them around as my preferences change.

[S2 Ant]

Im confused...... what are the benefits to this over the A8 discs and RS2 Caliper brackets??? Cos thats a lot of money to be spending on them items when these do the job

[RSCoupe]

I have some questions about this and other big brake kits also.

I read that the hats need to be replaced after a while, albeit less often than the friction rings. Is that true and if so what is the replacement schedule?

How much does the hardware cost to attach the ring to the hat? I can imagine stuff like that adding up quickly, BTDT before with other stuff. I would like to be able to compare the total costs involved in different upgrade options, if possible.

Can Richard or someone comment on the interface between the hat and friction ring? I know that if the holes are slotted with pins or whatever, that heat distortion can occur when the rotor is not allowed to expand at a different rate from the hat. For example the topic here: http://www.stoptech.com/faq/data/faq18.html . I have heard great things about Richard's products, so I'm sure all the important stuff has been addressed. I'm just curious if either something was done about that, or if it isn't a real concern, etc.

It has been recommended that the aluminum hats be replaced every other rotor replacement. They tend to develop cracks over time.

If you are using the hardware from the 993tt rotors, it is not available seperatly. But since you get new hardware when you replace the rotors, after a while, you should have extras.

I have 993tt calipers and rotors with RS2 brackets and custom hats from Europrice (which Alex got from Oliver in Germany). The hats do not have proper clearances, so additional machining will be necessary . They are steel, so cracking is not that big an issue. I may have them machined to the correct dimensions and use them as samples for hats to be made out of aluminum (or titanium ).

[auditude]

Im confused...... what are the benefits to this over the A8 discs and RS2 Caliper brackets??? Cos thats a lot of money to be spending on them items when these do the job

From what I understand these are the benefits: Porsche discs are better than Audi discs. The airflow through the vanes is better, they are lighter, I think they are perforated with cast-in and machine radiused holes versus not at all.

Here is a discussion of Coleman rotors versus Audi rotors, and the shape of the vanes is a factor. Directional vanes versus straight ones. I think the Audi ones may be straight, while the Porsche ones are directional. I'm not sure about the Audi ones not being directional, but it is a special feature on better rotors that could be part of it.

http://www.bira.org/press/s2repl.html

Directional rotor vanes, and two-piece rotor advantages are mentioned here as well:
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/...nt&engine=2.7T

[auditude]

It has been recommended that the aluminum hats be replaced every other rotor replacement. They tend to develop cracks over time.

Every other ring replacement. That does sound familiar.

If you are using the hardware from the 993tt rotors, it is not available seperatly. But since you get new hardware when you replace the rotors, after a while, you should have extras.

Ah, okay. So the 993tt rotors are sold with the hardware required to attach them to the hats.

Out of curiosity, does Porsche require that 993tt hats be replaced every other rotor replacement in the stock application?

I have 993tt calipers and rotors with RS2 brackets and custom hats from Europrice (which Alex got from Oliver in Germany). The hats do not have proper clearances, so additional machining will be necessary . They are steel, so cracking is not that big an issue. I may have them machined to the correct dimensions and use them as samples for hats to be made out of aluminum (or titanium ).

Samples. That would probably help out alot.

[RSCoupe]

Every other ring replacement. That does sound familiar.


Ah, okay. So the 993tt rotors are sold with the hardware required to attach them to the hats.

Out of curiosity, does Porsche require that 993tt hats be replaced every other rotor replacement in the stock application?


Samples. That would probably help out alot.

The 993tt rotors come as one assembly, hats and rotor rings. They are not available seperately. So every time you buy new rotors, you end up with hats that you don't need. And because of the unique rotor ring design, there are no aftermarket replacement rings that bolt right up. Although, I believe there was a comment in a thread on Motorgeek about a company that might be producing a 993tt rotor ring replacements. They just need to be bugged by enough people.

[billzcat1]

Im confused...... what are the benefits to this over the A8 discs and RS2 Caliper brackets???

Don't get me wrong - the OE A8 discs are good discs and have a very attractive price as well. The major factors in brake upgrades are disc diameter, piston area, thermal capacity, and surface area/cooling.

The A8 rotors give you the increase diameter, and the 996 calipers provide increased piston area. The A8 rotors are also 23 lbs each! (314x30) The stock 276x25 CQ/S2 rotor is 15.5 lbs. The 322x32 Porsche rotor weighs 18.6lbs and has an extra 8mm diameter over the A8 disc.

Here's some good shots showing the comparison of disc construction.

993tt Rotor Ring
Stock Audi rotor (B5 S4, 321x30)

The 993tt rotors have considerable weight reduction by making the disc body thinner, the vanes thinner, directional, and staggered, and of course the drilling. Ken hit the nail on the head with this one - they are cast in and machine radiused, not just drilled. If you take a careful look at the inside of the vanes, the casting shows a dimple around the hole. It's really impossible to show with a digital camera, but it is there.

[billzcat1]

Thought it might be worth hearing some of this from the horses mouth!

I read that the hats need to be replaced after a while, albeit less often than the friction rings. Is that true and if so what is the replacement schedule?

This is true - and as listed below, the replacement schedule is every other ring change. Since the rings are so much larger than stock, unless they see some heavy abuse, they will last quite a while!

How much does the hardware cost to attach the ring to the hat? I can imagine stuff like that adding up quickly, BTDT before with other stuff. I would like to be able to compare the total costs involved in different upgrade options, if possible.?

The hardware is included with each new rotor ring as they only come with hats attached, and this Porsche hardware is reused. I've thought about making a new hardware set, but it isnt' terribly crucial since the Porsche ones do just fine.

Can Richard or someone comment on the interface between the hat and friction ring? I know that if the holes are slotted with pins or whatever, that heat distortion can occur when the rotor is not allowed to expand at a different rate from the hat. For example the topic here: http://www.stoptech.com/faq/data/faq18.html . I have heard great things about Richard's products, so I'm sure all the important stuff has been addressed. I'm just curious if either something was done about that, or if it isn't a real concern, etc.?

I use radial slots that allow the fasteners to slide back and forth as the rotor expands/contracts. The bolts are tightened to 9 ft-lbs (per a Porsche service doc) and this does hold the rotor steady so there isn't noise from a loose rotor but is also loose enough to allow the hat and rotor to expand/contract without warping. The Porsche fasteners themselves have mechanical locking features.

I like to keep things versatile, as far as parts being able to be used on more than one car. I'm thinking if the brackets are cheaper than the hats, I might be better off going with one of Richard's standard hats instead of the CQ/RS2 bracket-specific ones since I can take my rotors with me to the 200q20v or whatever it may be, and get matching brackets from him for the calipers. If the hats need replacement every other rotor ring replacement or something like that, then it doesn't matter as much.?

Versatility is the very reason I haven't already made a hat like this.

Richard, do you have a standard 5x112mm hat that works with both 80/90/B4 90/90 20v or anything else, and CQ, S2, S2 sedan, S2 avant (and specifically 200q20v's w/G60's)? These hats would have to work with car-specific caliper brackets, which is what I understand you/he was telling me earlier is typical and preferable for him(Richard).?

Back to the versatility. I have a "universal" hat design which I use for my normal kits. I call it universal because it spans many Audi models, but this hat is not a universal "one hat fits all" product like you might find from Wilwood. The hats were specifically designed to provide maximum wheel clearance for Audi only. It maintains the same rotor offset for all models and is available drilled for 5x112 or 4x108. This hat is then matched with a car-specific bracket design, which I feel is the most efficient way to produce brake kits. Obviously I can't very well provide a hat that is universal for both 4x108 and 5x112 simultaneously - the bolt patterns overlap, throw the hat out of balance, and ultimately weaken the hat. I have one such hat (dual bolt pattern) which I use only for mockup and fitment purposes, and I wouldn't dare do such a thing for an actual usable product. Other than bolt pattern, my hats are identical for 4x108 and 5x112.

I've never bought big brakes before, so I only want to do it once per car, or less if I can swap them around as my preferences change.

The most swappable way to go would be with a set of the standard hats I already produce. This way all you need to change between the cars would be the bracket set (assuming you went 5 lug on the CQ). Don't get me wrong - I do fully support this possible GB and would love to make these hats - however I will present no illusions about how limited the fitment will be. I like to be as flexible as possible. If you were to get the RS2-bracket-specific hats for the CQ and wanted to swap to the 200q20v, I can still make a bracket for it. It just isn't a standard design and would be totally one-off parts.

[diesel des]

Ok stupid question time. Will any of this fit a 84 URQ? What is the most cost effective way forward here? Car will have 400+ BHP Thanks,des.

[billzcat1]

Honestly, I've never fitted brakes to an Ur-Q so I don't know. Rumor has it they have the same mount spacing and hub offset as the type 44 100/200 (5000 here in the states) but I've never measured to confirm.

Corey Jones is known for some excellent Ur-Q brake kits. He's over in the UK too and is on a few forums. I think he's well known on the quattroforum.

[panzerwagen]

Lads I will let you know how Richards kit does when I .....

mount mine to the Coupe. I'm getting his kit for 16" wheels using Porsche 996 rear calipers as per his "Sleeper" setup. Will let you know how it goes.

[billzcat1]

I had another bounced email to you Marc! Anodizer told me Wednesday (06/03) on the parts and then we're done!