5x112 conversion. The other way.

[mdz]

Thought I'd share some information I know about alterante ways to do 5x112 conversion.

Note: consider this to be for B4 saloon/avant. Should work on B3/Coupe/Cabrio as well, but I can't guarantee as I don't have any of them to test rear axle setup.


Front:

First of all we need to know which hub carrier we have - 75mm (I4/I5 except S/RS) or 82mm (V6).

82mm.

Ever thought about using quattro rear hubs on the front? Yes, it works.
From left to right: C4 A6 (not S6) quattro rear hub, C3 quattro rear hub, and B4 front (it's 75mm but it's for reference and it doesn't matter as bearing size is the only difference)

C4A6 quattro rear and B4 front are identical except for one thing. All you have to do is machine down bit of metal in the middle. Check B4 hub and you'll see where. And that's it,these hubs are from regular non-S C3/C4.
Here are C4A6q rear and B4 front side by side. Sorry for picture "quality", my phone cam went s**t after KitKat 4.4.4. update.



75mm.

There's two options - take 82mm hub carrier which is direct fit and do as above plus:
a) swap over both, inner and outer CV joints and driveshafts form V6 (they're bigger)
or
b) use C4 2.0 FWD outer CV joint (it fits with 82mm hub splines and R4/R5 driveshaft splines)

Second option again includes using rear hub on the front. This time from B5 quattro.

On the left B5 quattro rear hub, on the right B4 75mm front:





No machining required, but as you can see, B5 hub is a bit shorter, about 1.8mm. This means brake disk and wheel will be 1.8mm more inside. One option is to use spacer between hub and brake disk. This will give correct offset on both, brake disk and wheel.
Or you can use spacers between hub carrier and caliper carrier. This option will center caliper around brake disk, but will add 1.8mm to disk/wheel offset.

Here's 75mm hub carrier with spacers between hub/caliper carriers and 20mm spacer for wheel:

Rear

Quattro:

Simple. Use B5 quattro rear hubs and brake disks, plug&play. Someone who had done this could comment about offset changes if there's any . I don't have quattro yet so I can't take any measurements.

FWD:

There's three options.

First - Use hubs and brake disks from C3 FWD w/ 5x112 They're identical and plug&play option with the same offset. Sorry no picture this time because I don't have spare B4 hub for reference.

Second - Use hubs and brake disks from C4 FWD rear. Again, plug&play swap. Brake calipers, carriers and pads stays your existing ones. This option takes off ~4.5mm to wheel offset.

I chose this way when I did swap on my car. Most useful picture atm:



Third - Use hub/brake disk assembly from B5 FWD rear. Plug&play, takes off ~4.5mm to offset and no need to change calipers/carriers/pads.

Friend did this on his B4 Cabrio:

As you can see I don't have much pictures (more focusing on work than taking pics lately ) so if anyone can share theirs, please do. Any questions, comments, suggestions welcome.

[varia]

interesting

[jsol]

Yeah, I'm using c4q rear hubs for the front of my b4q v6. Using b5 hubs, b7 rs4 discs on the back. Got a brand new set of 320x30 slotted and drilled rotors off a c5 allroad for cheap. Hoping these will work up front with porsche 4/6 pot calipers.

[purplelion77]

This is excellent mod for those of us who always wanted an S2 but never quite managed to get one! It's a very nice upgrade since there aren't many options on 4x108 16'' or 17'' wheels that look reasonably OEM and don't cost north of £300. I had to buy 16'' steel wheels from a new Citroen C4 in order to get the same PCM with 10mm lower offset and factory look. I like this mod a lot!

[Kermps]

Quattro:

Simple. Use B5 quattro rear hubs and brake disks, plug&play. Someone who had done this could comment about offset changes if there's any . I don't have quattro yet so I can't take any measurements.

Actually it is possible to swap over hub carrier also. This way you don't have to buy new bearings for hubs and swap them. Then you can unbolt old carrier with 4x108 hub and install 5x112 hub with carrier right away.
When I did swap I bought new bearings and let workshop to swap hubs and bearings. Offset difference is +10mm, which is very positive. That is why b5 discs are also must for 5x112 swap. Brake pads and calipers are still same from b4. Handbrake works perfectly, but I have used it only twice, because quattro with diff lock can do the trick

Here are also two pics of my B4 quattro with B5/C5 OEM alloys ET45. Those wheels are very light. Atm I don't have any spacers between.


And here are two pictures with ET37 wheels, also no spacers:


I hope to get 16" S2/S4/S6 avus wheels for summer season. For me it was the main reason of 5x112 swap, which actually ended up fwd to quattro conversion and engine swap from 66kw abt to 110kw chipped aeb

[Audicted]

Actually it is possible to swap over hub carrier also. This way you don't have to buy new bearings for hubs and swap them. Then you can unbolt old carrier with 4x108 hub and install 5x112 hub with carrier right away.
When I did swap I bought new bearings and let workshop to swap hubs and bearings. Offset difference is +10mm, which is very positive. That is why b5 discs are also must for 5x112 swap. Brake pads and calipers are still same from b4. Handbrake works perfectly, but I have used it only twice, because quattro with diff lock can do the trick

Here are also two pics of my B4 quattro with B5/C5 OEM alloys ET45. Those wheels are very light. Atm I don't have any spacers between.


And here are two pictures with ET37 wheels, also no spacers:


I hope to get 16" S2/S4/S6 avus wheels for summer season. For me it was the main reason of 5x112 swap, which actually ended up fwd to quattro conversion and engine swap from 66kw abt to 110kw chipped aeb

But "Kermps" your car is a quattro, no?

[Kermps]

But "Kermps" your car is a quattro, no?

It was fwd from factory but I did quattro conversion this summer. So now it is quattro.

[mortcars]

question for you,

im going to eventually convert my 80 tdi avant to quattro so it makes sense to go the 82mm route, by any chance can someone do me a shopping list with all the bits i need for the 5 stud 82mm conversion and if at all poss what rear hubs ill need when i go quattro

im thinking 2x c4 quattro rear hubs (4A0407615D) 2x C4 FWD Rear hubs and early A4 discs all round? then complete front and rear drive shafts /Diff/ Transfer box from a B3/B4 V6 quattro?

Ta

Dan

[_ShurikeN]

mdz, thanks to you I have bought another useless pair of rear hub-carriers to source the left hub from the photo.
Do you have the partnumber of the middle hub from your picture?

[Virutas]

Hi, I will try to make the conversion using B5 quattro parts, but I'm a little confused about what brake calipers do I have to use. For the front axle do I use the stock ones, the B5's fronts, the B5's rears?? Can anyone help me out?

[jamforever01]

Hi, I will try to make the conversion using B5 quattro parts, but I'm a little confused about what brake calipers do I have to use. For the front axle do I use the stock ones, the B5's fronts, the B5's rears?? Can anyone help me out?

I have the same question! Do i have to use another brake calipers and discs, like the girling 60 and s2 discs, or the originals (girling 54 in my case) will do the job with A4 b5 quattro front discs (in the same diamater as the originals, which are 280mm) as long as i'm using the 1.8mm spacers between the hub and discs?

[Jaswan]

I don't know about the fronts but, for the rears, b5 quattro hubs, b5 quattro rear brake discs are a straight fit with the original caliper/carrier. They are the same caliper carrier as the b5.

Jase

[jamforever01]

I don't know about the fronts but, for the rears, b5 quattro hubs, b5 quattro rear brake discs are a straight fit with the original caliper/carrier. They are the same caliper carrier as the b5.

Jase

Yeah, that was straightforward, and it was already mentioned in the first post. Sadly there is nothing about the front calipers, but the caliper on the picture is a girling 60. If it's necessary, it's still the most rare and expensive part of this conversion.

[mdz]

I used G60 as a part of upgrades but it is not necessary for the swap. Take a circlip that usually comes with new bearings, put it inside carrier before pressing in the bearing to fix the offset difference and you can keep original brakes.

[jamforever01]

I used G60 as a part of upgrades but it is not necessary for the swap. Take a circlip that usually comes with new bearings, put it inside carrier before pressing in the bearing to fix the offset difference and you can keep original brakes.

Clear, but what about the discs? Which 5x112 discs are compatible with this setup?