S2 Sedan?

[faaaaast]

Guys,

Some of you will know that I've been considering doing an S2 Sedan conversion. This would essentially involve converting a B4 80 Quattro to 'S2' spec using either an S2 Avant, or an RS2 as a donor car.

The purpose of this thread is to explore how this could be achieved, any potential problems and for me to ask questions as they occur to me.

Current thinking is that the S2 Avant/RS2 share so much in common with the B4 chassis 80Q that it would mostly be a bolt-on job. Suspension, transmission mounting points are apparently the same, and interior should be swappable also.

The most difficult aspect that's come to light so far is that we'd have to re-weld the engine mounting brackets for a 5-cyl, as the 6-cyl mounting points are different (although not sure about the 2 litre 4-cyl 16v variant of the B4 80Q...). Also the loom and ECU would have to be swapped, although apparently this isn't difficult.

If anyone can think of any other points of difficulty, or even a reason why this conversion can't be done, please let me know!

Cheers,
James

[faaaaast]

OK first question:

Could you use the urS4 as a donor car for this conversion? Or is the running gear, interior, etc. too different to the B4 80?

Reason for asking is that they seem to fetch less than an Avant S2, and I'm on a budget. Although, ideally, I would like to find an S2 Avant/RS2 with crappy bodywork/mild accident damage where the engine and running gear are good. (If anyone sees such a car, or an 80Q with good bodywork, please let me know!).

The other possibility would be to retain the running gear from the 80Q V6, and just find a 20v Turbo engine, loom and transmission, wheel hubs? Or would the V6 running gear components not be sufficiently rated for the power of the 20v Turbo?

Cheers,
James

[Jas11n]

Suspension and interior a no-go from the urS4/S6. Front seats "may" fit with a bit of subframe hacking about. Dash etc is way different, 102mm longer for starters.
Suspension is totally different.

Engine however, is close enough to use. If going stock look you'd need a 3B/ABY/ADU inlet manifold, intercooler, crossmember and boost pipework. You'd need the propshaft and front subframe from an S2 avant if using a urS4/6 six speed box, not sure whats needed for an early urS4 5 speed.

[faaaaast]

OK, yeah I'll avoid the urS4 route. Too different!

Any thoughts about using the 80Q running gear?

Cheers,
James

[Jas11n]

This is my thinking in what I was going to do, but had to give up due to no space or time to complete.

In an ideal world;

Buy a good condition (bodywise) B4 80q 2.8.
Buy a good condition (mechanicals) S2 Avant (or RS2, though it'll be very hard to find)

Remove engine, loom, ancillaries, exhaust, suspension, gearbox, front/rear bumpers, Interior (including dashboard), propshaft and rear diff from the S2Avant, carefully labelling "everything" as you go.
Same goes for the 80q.

Cut out and remove the engine mount brackets from the chassis of the S2Avant, remove V6 brackets and weld the 5 cyl brackets in the correct position (Contact Eric (nogin) on audifans for info on this, he fitted the 5cyl 7A into a B3 1.8 4 cyl chassis)

Although I believe the suspension is the same between the two, the S2Avant will have the sports suspension (1B) and so be slightly lowered and more firmly damped. Reason for swapping front and rear suspension components complete, is you'd not have to remove springs, shocks hubs and swap between the two.
Fit loom into the 80q, install engine, subframe and gearbox with linkage, fit the S2Avant rear diff, propshaft and exhaust, front and rear bumpers and all the engine bay ancillaries. Reason I said to remove dash was so you could potentially replace the heater core at the same time, it's a PITA to do later if it leaks. Swap in interiors.

No small task, but anything is doable with enough determination, time, space, money and a little passion thrown in.

[martinjs]

Why dont you sell your 80Q and buy a cheap 90Q, then no welding of mounts is needed.

[Jas11n]

Why dont you sell your 80Q and buy a cheap 90Q, then no welding of mounts is needed.

Different rear suspension, different boot and different rear arches Martin.
James is in the same mind as me when I looked into doing this. It'd have to be a close to exact as the real deal car. chopping out rear B3 arches for the B4 wider flare ones is a PITA if you don't want to be messing with bodywork.

[A80Avant]

many swaps like this have been done here in greece.

Definitelly get the looms,otherwise you may encounter a problem in the future.Try to get as many parts as possible from the S2 or RS2.You may use the S2 arches instead of RS2 so that you can have more options on the wheels rather than the porsche possibilities only.Brakes also either need special mounts(Corey to the rescue) or RS2 ones original i quess could be made.

I believe that the mounts issue is not that hard,as if you come to make such transplants you can fit everything into anything!

[Acidburn]

Be a very good project and something completely different to whats seen everyday. I did toy with the idea of this but thats as far as it got before I got my s2 so decided to stick with that, for the time being anyways

[Acidburn]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-80-QUATTR...QQcmdZViewItem

any help?

[faaaaast]

Why dont you sell your 80Q and buy a cheap 90Q, then no welding of mounts is needed.

Hi Martin

So you can see I'm seriously considering this conversion! The reason for doing this at all would mainly be because I like the shape of the B4 saloon so much. Also because spares for the saloon body, etc should be much easier to source in the future.

Welding in engine mounts is nothing to the guys at the workshop where I get to prepare my cars, so I'm not too worried about that.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

James

[faaaaast]

This is my thinking in what I was going to do, but had to give up due to no space or time to complete.

In an ideal world;

Buy a good condition (bodywise) B4 80q 2.8.
Buy a good condition (mechanicals) S2 Avant (or RS2, though it'll be very hard to find)

Remove engine, loom, ancillaries, exhaust, suspension, gearbox, front/rear bumpers, Interior (including dashboard), propshaft and rear diff from the S2Avant, carefully labelling "everything" as you go.
Same goes for the 80q.

Cut out and remove the engine mount brackets from the chassis of the S2Avant, remove V6 brackets and weld the 5 cyl brackets in the correct position (Contact Eric (nogin) on audifans for info on this, he fitted the 5cyl 7A into a B3 1.8 4 cyl chassis)

Although I believe the suspension is the same between the two, the S2Avant will have the sports suspension (1B) and so be slightly lowered and more firmly damped. Reason for swapping front and rear suspension components complete, is you'd not have to remove springs, shocks hubs and swap between the two.
Fit loom into the 80q, install engine, subframe and gearbox with linkage, fit the S2Avant rear diff, propshaft and exhaust, front and rear bumpers and all the engine bay ancillaries. Reason I said to remove dash was so you could potentially replace the heater core at the same time, it's a PITA to do later if it leaks. Swap in interiors.

No small task, but anything is doable with enough determination, time, space, money and a little passion thrown in.

Yup, sounds like pretty much what I've been mulling over in the last few hours! Interior wise, will the rear seats/door trim of the Avant rear fit into the 80Q direct? If not this would warrant finding a nice 80Q interior too...

James

[faaaaast]

many swaps like this have been done here in greece.

Definitelly get the looms,otherwise you may encounter a problem in the future.Try to get as many parts as possible from the S2 or RS2.You may use the S2 arches instead of RS2 so that you can have more options on the wheels rather than the porsche possibilities only.Brakes also either need special mounts(Corey to the rescue) or RS2 ones original i quess could be made.

I believe that the mounts issue is not that hard,as if you come to make such transplants you can fit everything into anything!

If I were swapping over the entire transmission/running gear, no brake problems would be encountered. A standard front brake upgrade for the S2 (a la A8 rotors/Seat brackets/ Porsche calipers) would work just fine. B4 arches are wide enough for most applications.

Cheers,
James

[faaaaast]

Be a very good project and something completely different to whats seen everyday. I did toy with the idea of this but thats as far as it got before I got my s2 so decided to stick with that, for the time being anyways

Yeah, that's partly the decision I'm trying to make right now. Do this conversion (which would be my ideal car - an S2 B4 sedan - lovely but a lot of hard work (not a problem), time (potentially a problem), possibly money (problem). Or, go out and buy a nice S2 which I can enjoy 'out of the box' so to speak, for possibly less money...

James

[Jas11n]

will the rear seats/door trim of the Avant rear fit into the 80Q direct? If not this would warrant finding a nice 80Q interior too...

James

Rear door cards yes (the avant front and rear doors swap directly onto the B4 80 sedan too and visa versa )
Rear bench seat will swap.
I'm not 100% on the rear back rest though. I'm sure it can be made to fit if it didn't, I've seen an avant rear backrest fitted into a coupe (so the rear headrests match the front) so it can't be that hard