RS2 Project 600bhp VEMS K26/GT30R Ethanol 100%

**A80Avant** · 5 February 2009, 22:44

how about a ct358 turbo? im looking into something like that myself

**Billman** · 5 February 2009, 23:08

what is the turbine side on these CT-Turbos? Are they full Garrett?

I am with Repo here, why go for marketing whene there are better options out there?

If someone is not keen to BB then there are as always the todays garrett line that comes with normal bearings at 600-700 dollars. The question is does it really need to be these older impeller designs offered in most of there garrett GT-Series turbos when there are cheap Holset and Schwitzer turbos out there for less money?

For garrett non Ballbearing:

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/Turbochargers.htm

If you search the CompTurbo site they started selling turbos with schwitzer Compressor impeller (or maybe renamed schwitzer turbos).

If something exotic then full "exotic" (AKA newer design impellers) and not only fancy names and polished housings!

**a4kquattro** · 6 February 2009, 00:46

Originally posted by A80Avant

how about a ct358 turbo? im looking into something like that myself

I have no experience with Comp Turbo, but if this page is correct there is simply no way you are going to make 600hp with a 58mm compressor wheel. I'm also dubious about any turbo that I cant find a flow map for.

http://compturbo.com/products/index.php?folder1=Turbo_Chargers&folder2=CT_Silver&product=CT358

For reference, the 3076 has a 76mm compressor wheel..

**A80Avant** · 6 February 2009, 07:26

3076 has 57.0mm compressor inducer and 76.2mm exducer and a 60mm turbine wheel diameter(which is turbine inducer)

the ct358 has: 58mm inducer 74.5 exducer with a 74.5mm turbine wheel diameter(inducer) and 58mm exducer.

Yes,basically the ct358 is not for 600hp,but then neither is the 3076.(not by far actually).BUT the ct358 is a good alternative to the 3076 and i think can make the same power without the dreaded surge.

repo on other occasions has mentioned that you can make 500hp with a ct355 which has a 55mm compressor inducer,so i believe that the ct358 will be able to do a bit more than that!

but yes,it is not for 600hp.However if ethanol is used,...who knows?

**maRS2** · 6 February 2009, 08:04

E85 should spool up same as gazoline according to: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341

it say's:
6. It will, at proper mixtures lower EGT's by around 200 deg F, but due to the higher quantity of exhaust gas products it produces you do not lose any spool up (in fact I would wager spool up is better).

advantage of E85:
Ethanol and is a very turbo friendly fuel for many reasons.
1. It has a much higher evaporative cooling power than gasoline so the intake air charge in the cylinder is significantly cooler that it is with a comparable mixture of gasoline --- that means higher VE.

2. Its octane as blended in E85 is about 100, its blending octane when added to gasoline is rated at 118, so it is a very cost effective octane booster.

3. Ethanol burns faster than gasoline but has a slightly longer ignition delay during the slow burn phase of combustion so the engine does not do as much negative work fighting rising cylinder pressures due to large ignition advances. The total ignition advance for E85 is almost identical to the ideal advance for gasoline so it does not cause the ECU problems when you mix them.

4. At proper mixture you actually are releasing more energy in the cylinder due to the higher quantity of fuel you can burn. ( Ethanol can burn effeciently at much richer mixtures than gasoline can) That means about a 5% increase in energy release all by itself.

5. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.

6. It will, at proper mixtures lower EGT's by around 200 deg F, but due to the higher quantity of exhaust gas products it produces you do not lose any spool up (in fact I would wager spool up is better).

7. It is much cheaper ( if you go to a station that is not trying to price gouge).

**maRS2** · 6 February 2009, 08:09

If I understand good that:
5. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.

It would mean to me that you can run higher EMP (exhaust manifold pressure) so you can run higher boost from turbo with smaller hot side.

**Elianderson Soares** · 6 February 2009, 08:23

Ethanol E100

Originally posted by maRS2

E85 should spool up same as gazoline according to: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341

it say's:
6. It will, at proper mixtures lower EGT's by around 200 deg F, but due to the higher quantity of exhaust gas products it produces you do not lose any spool up (in fact I would wager spool up is better).

advantage of E85:
Ethanol and is a very turbo friendly fuel for many reasons.
1. It has a much higher evaporative cooling power than gasoline so the intake air charge in the cylinder is significantly cooler that it is with a comparable mixture of gasoline --- that means higher VE.

2. Its octane as blended in E85 is about 100, its blending octane when added to gasoline is rated at 118, so it is a very cost effective octane booster.

3. Ethanol burns faster than gasoline but has a slightly longer ignition delay during the slow burn phase of combustion so the engine does not do as much negative work fighting rising cylinder pressures due to large ignition advances. The total ignition advance for E85 is almost identical to the ideal advance for gasoline so it does not cause the ECU problems when you mix them.

4. At proper mixture you actually are releasing more energy in the cylinder due to the higher quantity of fuel you can burn. ( Ethanol can burn effeciently at much richer mixtures than gasoline can) That means about a 5% increase in energy release all by itself.

5. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.

6. It will, at proper mixtures lower EGT's by around 200 deg F, but due to the higher quantity of exhaust gas products it produces you do not lose any spool up (in fact I would wager spool up is better).

7. It is much cheaper ( if you go to a station that is not trying to price gouge).

Hi MaRS2, E100% ethanol is so wonderful, low cost of $ 0.40 per liter, is ecologically sound,

Comment: There are rumors that the Brazil international would be leaving to produce food to produce Ethanol, that is a lie, live in Brazil in a region where the variety of planting sugar cane (ethanol), Soybean, Corn and Other, the Brazil never no longer produce food, we have a huge area to be cultivated, only 5% of our area is to Ethanol, which there is an international barrier to prevent the export of Brazilian Ethanol to the world, this fuel is wonderful, and if the countries to exploit technologies for cold weather use of Ethanol, fuel would have a clean, low cost (no war), and with great performance.

**Elianderson Soares** · 6 February 2009, 08:28

Smaller Hot Side

Originally posted by maRS2

If I understand good that:
5. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.

It would mean to me that you can run higher EMP (exhaust manifold pressure) so you can run higher boost from turbo with smaller hot side.

If I use smaller hot side (.62) lose power and torque at 6500 revs to 7800rpm